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FTR1200 vs. The World

19444 Views 65 Replies 24 Participants Last post by  edgelett, 
EPOCH6
10
So here we are, roughly 6 years into the Indian Motorcycle resurrection via Polaris and they've officially puffed out their chests with a fully developed standalone high performance motorcycle, their first focused attempt at taking on the international market. Opinions aside, lets take a look at the numbers and how it stacks up against the competition on paper.

The OP will start at the high end for each manufacturer (budget model comparison another day), we'll use crank horsepower/wet weight to calculate power:weight ratios because it's very difficult to find reliable stock dyno data for every bike on this list. Just keep in mind that on the street, for all of these bikes, there will be various drivetrain losses and the horsepower measured at the wheel will almost always be at least 10% lower than the horsepower listed by the manufacturer (measured at the engine). This is meant to be a basic numbers based overview of how the new Indians stack up against the competition, I'm not going to dive into rake, trail, wheelbase, seat height, battery, GVRW, fuel capacity specs etc, potential buyers that personally find that information crucial can find it if they want it. This is a basic "how much does it cost, how fast does it go, and how complicated are the electronics" comparison. All specs are taken from the manufacturer, I will note any exceptions.

To make this wall of text easier to digest:

Specifications that exceed the ability of the FTR 1200 S will be marked in green.
Specifications that lag behind the ability of the FTR 1200 S will be marked in red.
Specifications that are a matter of personal preference will be left black.

2019 FTR 1200 S
MSRP $15,500 USD

Land vehicle Motorcycle Vehicle Motor vehicle Car


Wet Weight
518 lbs
Engine Type
Liquid Cooled, V-Twin, DOHC, 4-Valves per Cylinder
Displacement
1203 cc
Horsepower
120 HP
Peak Torque
85 ft-lb (115.2 Nm)
Power:Weight Ratio (hp/lb)
4.3:1
Lean Angle
43 degrees
Transmission/Drive
Slipper Clutch
Chain Drive
Front Suspension
Fully Adjustable Inverted Telescopic Cartridge Fork
5.9 in (150 mm) travel
Rear Suspension
Fully Adjustable Piggyback IFP mono-shock
5.9 in (150 mm)
Brakes
Front Brakes:
Dual 320mm x t5 Rotor with 4-Piston Brembo Calipers
Rear Brakes:
Single 265mm x t5 Rotor with 2-Piston Brembo Calipers
Tires / Wheels
Front Tire:
Dunlop® DT3-R Radial, 120/70R19 60V
Rear Tire:
Dunlop® DT3-R Radial, 150/80R18 70V
Electronics & Rider Aids
4.3” Ride Command LCD Touchscreen w/ Bluetooth
3 Ride Modes (Sport, Standard Rain)
Lean Angle Sensitive ABS
Stability, Traction and Wheelie Mitigation Control
USB Fast-Charge Port
Standard ABS
Cruise Control
LED Headlight, Taillight, Turn Signals

"Heritage" Standards & Scramblers

2018 Ducati Scrambler 1100 Sport
Viper Black
MSRP $14,995 USD


Wet Weight
454 lbs
Engine Type
L-Twin, Air Cooled, Desmodromic Valves, 2 Valves per Cylinder
Displacement
1,079 cc
Horsepower
86 HP
Peak Torque
65 ft-lb
Power:Weight Ratio (hp/lb)
5.3:1
Lean Angle
Not Listed
Transmission/Drive
Slipper Clutch
Chain Drive
Front Suspension
Fully Adjustable Inverted Ohlins Fork
5.9 in (150 mm) travel
Rear Suspension
Fully Adjustable Ohlins mono-shock
5.9 in (150 mm)
Brakes
Front Brakes:
2 x Ø320 mm semi-floating discs, radially mounted Brembo Monobloc M4.32 calipers, 4-piston
Rear Brakes:
Ø245 mm disc, 1-piston floating caliper
Tires / Wheels
Front Tire:
Pirelli MT 60 RS 120/70 ZR18
Rear Tire:
Pirelli MT 60 RS 180/55 ZR17
Electronics & Rider Aids

Riding Modes
Power Modes
Ducati Safety Pack (Cornering ABS + DTC)
LED lights
LCD instruments
Under-seat storage compartment with USB socket

2018 BMW R nineT
MSRP $15,495 USD


Wet Weight
489 lbs
Engine Type
Flat Twin, Air/Oil Cooled, DOHC, 4 Valves per Cylinder
Displacement
1,170 cc
Horsepower
110 HP
Peak Torque
85.6 ft-lb
Power:Weight Ratio (hp/lb)
4.4:1
Lean Angle
45 degrees
Transmission/Drive
Hydraulic Clutch
Shaft Drive
Front Suspension
Inverted telescopic forks
4.7 in
Rear Suspension
BMW Paralever (adjustable)
4.7 in
Brakes
Front Brakes:
Double disc. ABS. Four-piston calipers.
Rear Brakes:
Single disc. ABS. Floating disc. Two-piston calipers.
Tires / Wheels
Front Tire:
120/70-ZR17
Rear Tire:
180/55-ZR17
Electronics & Rider Aids
ABS

2018 Triumph Thruxton R
MSRP $15,000 USD


Wet Weight
468 lbs
Engine Type
Liquid cooled, 4 Valve per Cylinder, SOHC, 270° crank angle parallel twin
Displacement
1200 cc
Horsepower
97 HP
Peak Torque
82.6 ft-lb
Power:Weight Ratio (hp/lb)
4.8:1
Lean Angle
50 degrees
Transmission/Drive
Slipper Clutch
Chain Drive
Front Suspension
Fully adjustable Showa inverted forks
4.7 in
Rear Suspension
Fully adjustable Ohlins twin shocks with piggy back reservoir, 120mm rear wheel travel
4.7 in
Brakes
Brembo twin 310mm floating discs Brembo 4-piston radial monobloc calipers, ABS
Single 220mm disc, Nissin 2-piston floating caliper, ABS
Tires / Wheels
120/70 ZR 17
160/60 ZR17
Electronics & Rider Aids
LCD multi-functional instrument pack with analogue speedometer
LED lights
Analogue tachometer
Heated grip ready
Traction control
Throttle modes
USB socket
Immobilizer

2019 Kawasaki Z900RS Cafe
MSRP $11,699 USD


Wet Weight
474 lbs
Engine Type
Liquid-Cooled, Inline-4, DOHC, 4 Valves per Cylinder
Displacement
948cc
Horsepower
110 HP
Peak Torque
72.7 ft-lb
Power:Weight Ratio (hp/lb)
4.3:1
Lean Angle
Not Listed
Transmission/Drive
Slipper Clutch
Chain Drive
Front Suspension
Adjustable inverted forks
4.7 in
Rear Suspension
Adjustable horizontal mono-shock
5.5 in
Brakes
Twin 300mm 4-piston radial calipers, ABS
Single 220mm disc, 2-piston caliper, ABS
Tires / Wheels
120/70 ZR17 Dunlop GPR-300F
180/55 ZR17 Dunlop GPR-300
Electronics & Rider Aids
LCD multi-functional instrument panel
LED lights
Traction control
ABS

Modern Sport Standards & "Nakeds"

Ducati Monster 1200 S
MSRP $17,295 USD



Wet Weight
465 lbs
Engine Type
L-Twin, Liquid Cooled, Testastretta 11 degree, 4 Desmodromic Valves per Cylinder,
Displacement
1198 cc
Horsepower
147 HP
Peak Torque
91 ft-lb
Power:Weight Ratio (hp/lb)
3.2:1
Lean Angle
50 degrees
Transmission/Drive
Slipper Clutch
Chain Drive
Front Suspension
Fully adjustable Ohlins inverted forks
5.1 in
Rear Suspension
Fully adjustable Ohlins mono-shock
5.9 in
Brakes
2 x 330 mm semi-floating discs, Brembo Monobloc Evo M50 calipers, 4-piston, ABS
245 mm disc, 2-piston caliper, ABS
Tires / Wheels
Pirelli Diablo Rosso III 120/70 ZR17
Pirelli Diablo Rosso III 190/55 ZR17
Electronics & Rider Aids
TFT Display
Cornering ABS
Ducati Traction Control
Ducati Wheelie Control
Riding Modes
LED Lights

2018 Honda CB1000R
MSRP $12,999 USD

Land vehicle Vehicle Motorcycle Car Automotive design


Wet Weight
467 lbs
Engine Type
Liquid-Cooled, DOHC, In-line 4, 4 Valves per Cylinder
Displacement
998 cc
Horsepower
143 HP
Peak Torque
76.7 ft-lb
Power:Weight Ratio (hp/lb)
3.3:1
Lean Angle
Not Listed
Transmission/Drive
Slipper Clutch
Chain Drive
Front Suspension
Adjustable Showa inverted forks
4.3 in
Rear Suspension
Adjustable Showa mono-shock
5.2 in
Brakes
Dual radial-mounted four-piston calipers with full-floating 310mm discs; ABS
Single-caliper 256mm disc; ABS
Tires / Wheels
120/70 ZR17
190/55 ZR17
Electronics & Rider Aids
Riding Modes
ABS

2019 Yamaha MT-10
MSRP $12,999 USD


Wet Weight
463 lbs
Engine Type
Liquid-Cooled, DOHC, Inline 4
Displacement
998cc
Horsepower
160 HP
Peak Torque
82 ft lb
Power:Weight Ratio (hp/lb)
2.9:1
Lean Angle
Not listed, but lots
Transmission/Drive
Slipper Clutch
Chain Drive
Front Suspension
43mm KYB® inverted fork, fully adjustable
4.7 in
Rear Suspension
KYB® piggyback shock, fully adjustable
4.7 in
Brakes
Hydraulic dual disc, Ø 320 mm
Hydraulic single disc, Ø 220 mm
Tires / Wheels
120/70ZR17
190/55ZR17
Electronics & Rider Aids
LCD Display
YCC-T
Riding Modes (3)
Traction Control
Cruise Control

2018 Ducati Hypermotard SP
MSRP $16,295 USD


Wet Weight
443 lbs
Engine Type
L-Twin, Liquid Cooled, Testastretta 11 degree, 4 Desmodromic Valves per Cylinder,
Displacement
937 cc
Horsepower
113 HP
Peak Torque
72 ft lb
Power:Weight Ratio (hp/lb)
4:1
Lean Angle
47.5 degrees
Transmission/Drive
Slipper Clutch
Chain Drive
Front Suspension
Öhlins fully adjustable 50mm usd forks
7.3 in
Rear Suspension
Fully adjustable Öhlins monoshock
6.9 in
Brakes
2 x 320 mm Brembo 4-piston, ABS
245 mm disc, 2-piston caliper, ABS
Tires / Wheels
Pirelli Diablo Supercorsa SP, 120/70 ZR17
Pirelli Diablo Supercorsa SP, 180/55 ZR17
Electronics & Rider Aids
LCD Display
Riding Modes
Power Modes
Ducati Safety Pack (ABS + DTC)
Carbon fibre components

2018 KTM Super Duke 1290 R
MSRP $17,999 USD


Wet Weight
459 lbs
Engine Type
LC8 75 degree V-Twin, Liquid Cooled, 4 Valves per Cylinder,
Displacement
1301 cc
Horsepower
177 HP
Peak Torque
104 ft lb
Power:Weight Ratio (hp/lb)
2.6:1
Lean Angle
Not listed, lots
Transmission/Drive
Quickshifter
Slipper Clutch
Chain Drive
Front Suspension
Fully adjustable WP 48mm usd forks
4.92 in
Rear Suspension
Fully adjustable WP monoshock
6.14 in
Brakes
2 x 320 mm Brembo 4-piston, ABS
245 mm disc, 2-piston caliper, ABS
Tires / Wheels
Metzeler M7RR
120/70 ZR17
190/55 ZR17
Electronics & Rider Aids
LCD Display
Riding Modes
Lean-Angle Sensitive ABS
Cruise Control
Traction Control
TPMS
Bluetooth


Stay tuned. More comparisons to come (Yamaha, KTM, Suzuki etc).
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Max Kool
Excellent post, however it’s really hard to quantify emotions.

At some point enough hp is enough for me. I never redline an engine anyway.

But anyway, great post!
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EPOCH6
Max Kool said:
Excellent post, however it’s really hard to quantify emotions.

At some point enough hp is enough for me. I never redline an engine anyway.

But anyway, great post!
Click to expand...
Totally, comparing spec sheets only goes so far when you're actually in the market and deciding which motorcycle is worth your money, but outside of the showroom I never get sick of watching the industry battle back and forth. Competition is exciting and it's always interesting to observe the different approaches taken by each manufacturer.

My local Indian dealer is going to be welcoming Kawasaki into their showroom next year. I'm looking forward to watching the Z900RS and FTR1200 duke it out for sales in the same building. The Z900RS is a fantastic value for what you get but maybe the attitude and character of the FTR1200 will be enough to steal sales, time will tell. Looking forward to demoing both, and every other damn bike on the above list while I'm at it!
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hankharmony
The ftr 1200 needs a fairing
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Catalac
Should add a green to the FTR for looks, my god are some of those comparisons ugly, have the thought I’d be be buying one of those because of their bubbly personality.
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Max Kool
While we’re talking bikes in the same market (or not really), I rode a BMW S1000XR this weekend.

Excellent bike, lots of electronics, perfect quick shifter..... but a 4 in line just doesn’t rock my world. Too much a turbine instead of an engine imho.

I’d expect the same with the Z900 and the CB1000R.
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Max Kool
hankharmony said:
The ftr 1200 needs a fairing
Click to expand...
I’m already thinking of a windscreen of some sorts that compliments the lines instead of screwing it up. No, obviously not in clear or smoked acryl/perspex...
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v-rod doug
Max Kool said:
I’m already thinking of a windscreen of some sorts that compliments the lines instead of screwing it up. No, obviously not in clear or smoked acryl/perspex...
Click to expand...
Think puig for the windscreen
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cmoalem
While you took the FTR1200 topmodel into the comparison ... you took e.g. the R9T base model.
Not complaining too much ... the FTR1200s Race Rep comes with all the bells and whistles and still looks very good price wise. :D
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Janluke
I think Indian have hit the ground running with this bike and it appears to slot in nicely with the competition in the above post. Having spent all that money making the engine very different to the Scout I can't see them them not using it in other bikes. Scrambler? ADV bike? faired upright tourer? etc etc. Any type of bike that the BMW boxer or the Triumph triple engine works with would work with the Indian engine. In the UK we tend to think of American bikes as "Cruisers" and apart from Buell which had a small but dedicated following here there has never really been anything that competes with the other brands. I think Indian could have tapped into a new market here with unlimited potential. I wish them all the best
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Baron58
Yep the FTR1200 is in a busy sector as posted above. The real trick is to convince the dedicated Ducati, Honda, BMW, KTM crowd that the Indian is worth a shot. Interesting is the V Twin crowd loves this bike, but the crowd the bike is going to be marketed to isn't very impressed based on all the online comments. Sales will tell the true tale. If Indian Polaris really want to branch out in bike design, they need to make a inline power plant like everyone else so they can get the power up and weight down. You can only go so far with a V Twin. But I will say, Indian has a superior shot at gaining customers with this bike, much much more so than Harley with their new coming bikes.
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high plains rider
Excellent post. What it shows is that the FTR is in the ball park of everything from specs to price. Now with it's intended customer base I don't know how much the "made in America" is going to affect sales, but time will tell. The only spec I myself would have done different is the factory replica paint. At $1000 it in my opinion will be the first thing cut among buyers, especially those that know nothing of the Flat Track scene. So with having said that all those specs at 14999 IMO pushes the FTR way ahead of the competition. But I'm a buy American when possible first kinda' guy plus I don't get too wrapped around "but muh dealer network" argument either.
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MarkS
I agree that since the full FRT 1200 S spec is available at $14,999, and the $15,999 literally just brings the race paint job, the more accurate comparison would be to $14,999. I think the OP should revise.
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EPOCH6
Baron58 said:
Interesting is the V Twin crowd loves this bike, but the crowd the bike is going to be marketed to isn't very impressed based on all the online comments. Sales will tell the true tale.
Click to expand...
You're exactly right that sales will reveal all.

In my experience the Internet, acting as a massive soapbox for everyone, provides a very negatively skewed perspective of just about everything let alone motorcycles. It's the people with an axe to grind that go around posting and elevating the same negative comments over and over again on social media, not the people casually enjoying life. I imagine most people that like the bike, excluding those of us intent on spreading the Indian Motorcycle Gospel, maybe go as far as liking or sharing a post, then they go on their merry way waiting for demo day.
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Tennessee
One of the problems with the V-twin is the stigma attached to it. Many people who just don't understand engine dynamics will possibly write off the FTR since it has "one of those slow American V-twins". (Think thumpa-thumpa) Even the Ducati is an L-twin.
I don't know if it will affect sales, but I can see sales people from the other brands using it against Indian, that "outdated V-twin design". On a bike such as these, you want an engine that sounds like a screaming jet, not a John Deere tractor. They are not out for an evening cruise - more like a light to light race. I can hear them from my house at night, every weekend where I live - on one of our main drags that is a few blocks over. Sounds like airplanes taking off, save that they shift more often.
We'll see.
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EPOCH6
MarkS said:
I agree that since the full FRT 1200 S spec is available at $14,999, and the $15,999 literally just brings the race paint job, the more accurate comparison would be to $14,999. I think the OP should revise.
Click to expand...
Sure. My initial thought was that most people would be gung ho about getting the red frame and fancy paint, but you're right, the other bikes on my list are in base paint. I'll modify the OP after work.
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MarkS
reinie said:
The race paint job is unjustly overpriced in my humble opinion. Especially considering how little is actually painted differently, namely the trellis frame and the pseudo gas tank.
Click to expand...
Good point. Besides I think I like the Indian Motorcycle Red over Grey paint version better, actually. The red frame is too flashy for me.
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Baron58 said:
Yep the FTR1200 is in a busy sector as posted above. The real trick is to convince the dedicated Ducati, Honda, BMW, KTM crowd that the Indian is worth a shot. Interesting is the V Twin crowd loves this bike, but the crowd the bike is going to be marketed to isn't very impressed based on all the online comments. Sales will tell the true tale. If Indian Polaris really want to branch out in bike design, they need to make a inline power plant like everyone else so they can get the power up and weight down. You can only go so far with a V Twin. But I will say, Indian has a superior shot at gaining customers with this bike, much much more so than Harley with their new coming bikes.
Click to expand...
The competition is decidedly twin, L (which is V) and parallel. The Japanese are inline, but they are not a real factor at this point.
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LBV
I'll bet that the FTR v-twin sound will beat all of the above bikes hands down!
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Max Kool
Don't rule out the Ducatis when it comes to engine sound....
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