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I would like to thank @DarkScout & @Hatt ( and any other contributing members) for volunteering your expertise and knowledge to this tread/forum. Both of these fellows have posted outstanding information that has been a great benefit to the forum community. They have sighted the experts they use as a guide and in the end have saved me and others time in performing analysis we couldn't perform on our own.

I am just in the process of ordering a DarkScout suspension and look forward to following Hatt's instructions for installation - well - with exception of the PBR - might have to have substitute BigRock or Kokanee in steps 1 & 12 instead.
 
I second everything Fidman said, other than I already had my rear darks scout suspension on and just put the new springs in today wow what a difference I'm blown away. I followed everything Hatt said I had a friend who is a mechanic for team Yamaha and he had the siphon for measuring the air gap so didn't need a ruler. Also I skipped the beer my assistants were handling that part
Hands down recommend this step by step also, my 2 cents you can use small wooden shims to seperate the fork clamps to avoid any damage on the paint by using a screw driver. Thanks be to Dark Scout, Jethro, and Hatt for every part of the installed they individually helped and collectively led to it's completion happy riding everyone I'm going to take me a nice cruise before bed time.
 
I started to work on replacing the springs - loosening bolts before I jack the front wheel - then I realized I didn't have a 16 mm Allan key or anything else that might work - so I searched the forum and found I can use a rod connector from Lowes - see Front Axle - What Size Allen Needed?.

So if you find yourself without the tool to remove the front wheel - go to lowes for a cheap fix.
 
Discussion starter · #125 ·
@Hatt

Your instructions were awesome. No issues - actually quite easy with the step my step instructions. Thanks for taking the time to break down the process.
I'm really glad it helped you get the most out your bike!
I appreciate the sentiment! Reminds me why I do it!
I'll be doing some more soon on other aspects too!
Ride long and prosper!
 
Thank you Hatt for a great write up giving me, and others, the confidence to get this done.
I have a few questions I hope you can shed some light on.

Step 13.
Add fork oil.
Your goal is to have 160mm from top of oil level inside fork, to top of fork tube while fork is collapsed, and empty of spring and spacer.
The manual from Progressive Springs says 140mm aircap. Is the 160mm just for the DarkScout-kit, or would I benefit using 160mm on the Progressive Springs kit as well? (And why, if such case?)

Step 14.
Put in spring and spacer kit as shown.
View attachment 43469
The manual from Progressive Springs says tight coils down, you use tight coils up.
Recently reading a review of a Fireblade, they wrote, "The fuel tank i made of titanium to avoid weight high up on a motor cycle, which is not preferable....."
Shouldn't the tight coils be down to
1: Avoid the main weight of the spring it self bein on top, "pushing" it down.?
2: To avoid weight high up on a motor cycle.?

Replace fork cap being carefull to not cross thread. This may be the most challenging part. Be patient, and mindful of where the thread begins, I push down, turn back wards till I feel a slight click, indicating beginning of thread, then turn forward to tighten.
How to I mount the fork tubes to being able to push down on the cap.
I do not have a vice or such, as my workshop simply is on doing the work on the pavement outside my house.
I am afraid if I mount the fork tubes on the bike again, and push down, it will tilt my bike forward, off the jack.

Hope Hatt, or others can help me to a better understanding of my 3 questions.

Tor
 
Discussion starter · #128 · (Edited)
Thank you Hatt for a great write up giving me, and others, the confidence to get this done.
I have a few questions I hope you can shed some light on.


The manual from Progressive Springs says 140mm aircap. Is the 160mm just for the DarkScout-kit, or would I benefit using 160mm on the Progressive Springs kit as well? (And why, if such case?)


The manual from Progressive Springs says tight coils down, you use tight coils up.
Recently reading a review of a Fireblade, they wrote, "The fuel tank i made of titanium to avoid weight high up on a motor cycle, which is not preferable....."
Shouldn't the tight coils be down to
1: Avoid the main weight of the spring it self bein on top, "pushing" it down.?
2: To avoid weight high up on a motor cycle.?


How to I mount the fork tubes to being able to push down on the cap.
I do not have a vice or such, as my workshop simply is on doing the work on the pavement outside my house.
I am afraid if I mount the fork tubes on the bike again, and push down, it will tilt my bike forward, off the jack.

Hope Hatt, or others can help me to a better understanding of my 3 questions.

Tor
Thank you for taking the time to read, and even more thanks for grabbing it by the horns and making it happen!.
Air gap. This controls the very last bit of your forks travel.. this is the difference of bottoming out, or not..
DS found that 160, was a better deterrent for bottoming out than 140. I found the same.
For accuracy, the DS full kit I have uses progressive brand springs.

You are right. The ultimate goal is to reduce weight high up on a bike.
But what is also true, is you also want to reduce unsprung weight in a suspension system as well.
the effect of the weight of the heavy tight springs on top, to the over all motorcycle is negligible compared to that weight being at the lower suspension as unsprung weight. I feel it is the better of evils. This allows the suspension to react faster thus do a better job.
Now I realize that progressive recommends up,, but in any custom high dollar, life is on the line suspension I've had built for my race bikes, and on every car I've built, and according to many others, tight coils up.
However, if you would like to follow the progressive, there would be no issue with that, as it's a street bike.. I just like to follow general engineering and typical set ups I've seen.
It's just what I've always been told to do, and seen other experts do as well.

Now keep in mind, adjusting any of these perimeters, is easy to do later, with out dis assembly, as needed. All suspension numbers we are given,, should be regarded as a starting point. Often tuning will be required for best results.. if help is needed on that later, check back here and I'll help.

On the caps,, I found I was able to hold the fork in the extended position needed to install caps, by grabbing upper fork tube, and resting it against lower tube fork seal, acting as a stopper, while pushing cap down with hand using the socket as a handle to turn cap. I found the Scout to have less pre-load on most bikes and didn't require much effort to push spring down.
If that doesn't work for you, you can put the caps on AFTER you re-assemble the built forks to bike and use the bike to hold for you. Counter act your pushing down, with another hand by pulling up on bike, or call a bud or neighbor over for some assistance. Again though, youll find there is not as much tension as one would expect.
Good luck and keep us posted.
 
OK, so did the fork today following post #1 of this topic.
Not only was it very easy. It was very fun too.

In my setup, 2015 Scout, rider weight 86kg/190lbs, I went with:
Progressive Springs
Tight coils up
Spacers cut to 36mm
15W Fork Oil from Eni
160mm Aircap

The front is quite better now. Not a big woaw-out-of-this-world-difference, but noticable to the better side.
It now really reveals how bad the back suspension is. So getting new shocks some time soon will happen.
Again, a very fun procedure to do.

1. The unscrew POP! many of us fear is nothing to write about. It is very gentle.
2. Getting the end cap back on is no problem at all. Not very much pressue on the sping, and it is very easy to get back on without cross threading.
(My tip is to mark the cap and top fork tube where the threads start, before you insert the spacer. Then when ready to fit the cap, line the marks up, do a small unscrew twist (anti-clockwise), and the go for the full clockwise.)

Ooohh... And for the trivia.
To get 160mm aircap, I used 255ml of oil in each fork tube.
If you want 140mm aircap, (like Progressive Springs suggest), you need 270ml of oil in each fork tube.
The Scout 2015 service manual says each fork tube has a capacity of 335ml.
My math tells me that would be about 50mm from the top, and not much aricap at all when the end cap is back on.
 
The air gap of 160mm can be one part of the front suspension setup that you can adjust as @Hatt has mention it controls the very last 30% of your forks travel as in, how it feels when the fork has used 70% of its compression stroke and now has moved into the last 30% of its full travel. the air gad acts like an air cushioning, the more air gap you have 160mm the softer that cushioning will be, the less air gap you have 130mm the harder that cushioning will be, 130 high impact 160 low impact.

So basically if your a high speed hard impacts and an aggressive type rider that's like to ride hard a 130 to140 air gap can be used, if you say your a cruiser type slow speed rider that's like to ride at or around the town and just open cruisers the open highways at the speed limits a 150 to160 air gap can be used, worth noting that the air gap values are a starting point only you will need to determine what's right for you and your riding style.

Oil weights also play a big part in the suspensions rebound, that's how fast the suspension returns after an impact, 20wt for oil is recommended because the scouts has no valving to speak off, the only part that controls the rebound are 4 small holes at the bottom of the dampening rod, this is the scouts rebound circuit or lack off it, oil is compressed through the 4 holes, to thin of oil will result in a bouncy or springy front end this is very bad for cornering and overall handselling, the only way that you can control this is either install race tech emulators or change oil weight to 20wt fork oil, a thicker oil moves through the holes in the dampening tube slower and in return slows down the rebound and inturn takes out the bouncing on the front forks.
 
@Hatt Would you mind adding the size hex and what was needed to remove the front tire to the post? Great write up!!! It's super helpful!! Also, was it hard to realign the forks when you finished?
 
The air gap of 160mm can be one part of the front suspension setup that you can adjust as @Hatt has mention it controls the very last 30% of your forks travel as in, how it feels when the fork has used 70% of its compression stroke and now has moved into the last 30% of its full travel. the air gad acts like an air cushioning, the more air gap you have 160mm the softer that cushioning will be, the less air gap you have 130mm the harder that cushioning will be, 130 high impact 160 low impact.

So basically if your a high speed hard impacts and an aggressive type rider that's like to ride hard a 130 to140 air gap can be used, if you say your a cruiser type slow speed rider that's like to ride at or around the town and just open cruisers the open highways at the speed limits a 150 to160 air gap can be used, worth noting that the air gap values are a starting point only you will need to determine what's right for you and your riding style.

Oil weights also play a big part in the suspensions rebound, that's how fast the suspension returns after an impact, 20wt for oil is recommended because the scouts has no valving to speak off, the only part that controls the rebound are 4 small holes at the bottom of the dampening rod, this is the scouts rebound circuit or lack off it, oil is compressed through the 4 holes, to thin of oil will result in a bouncy or springy front end this is very bad for cornering and overall handselling, the only way that you can control this is either install race tech emulators or change oil weight to 20wt fork oil, a thicker oil moves through the holes in the dampening tube slower and in return slows down the rebound and inturn takes out the bouncing on the front forks.
Progressive recommends 10wt oil on the 17 models. Did this valve process change for the 17' model or would sticking with 20wt still be okay? Thank you!
 
At least on the '15 (and '16?) the hex for the front axle is 16mm. I hadda order one too. Fortunately a buddy had one that let me do the job until I got mine for the toolbox.
 
as i have noted in the past "weight" varies by manufacturer, you want to know centistoke of the fluid. one manufacturers 10W can be a LOT heavier than another as there is NO set rules for classification like engine oils. peterverdone/suspension.com will explain + show the ACTUAL viscosity of mant fork fluids in centistokes!!
 
Discussion starter · #137 ·
@Hatt Would you mind adding the size hex and what was needed to remove the front tire to the post? Great write up!!! It's super helpful!! Also, was it hard to realign the forks when you finished?
Thanks for the heads up! I didn't realize I forgot that Lil gem of knowledge!
Unfortunately, my Scout is out getting the big bore kit and I can't find my stock fork caps to get a size from!? (Ruh roh!) So, if you could let me know the size, I will add that.. thanks again!
On the forks oil, it seems we have found a happy place in Maxima brand oils rating of 15-20 wt. Range.
But as rodhotter states, they don't stay consistent from brand to brand..
 
Oh I forgot about a manufactured fork oil being different between brands and used a different brand then progressive. Guess I’ll have to wait and see what happens. I think I used Bel Ray brand 10w since it said used 10wt for the 17 model. Hmmm well guess I’ll see how it rides in a bit since it’s mostly put back together now. 10wt is 10wt was my thinking....surprised there is no standard. Hopefully most brands are close to each other.

It was a 16 sized hex. Odd size ended up special ordering it as no local hardware stores carried it. Front fork caps is 30mm socket. Hope that helps someone.
 
staying with the same brand suspension fluid allows accurate changes in the actual viscosity regardless of the actual # + like engine oils you get similar additives. forks don't move near as much as rear shock-s so a mid viscosity index which determines the fluids change with riding + weather is fine. Redline gives you a mixing guideline for their top of line high index fluids.
 
Discussion starter · #140 ·
Oh I forgot about a manufactured fork oil being different between brands and used a different brand then progressive. Guess I’ll have to wait and see what happens. I think I used Bel Ray brand 10w since it said used 10wt for the 17 model. Hmmm well guess I’ll see how it rides in a bit since it’s mostly put back together now. 10wt is 10wt was my thinking....surprised there is no standard. Hopefully most brands are close to each other.

It was a 16 sized hex. Odd size ended up special ordering it as no local hardware stores carried it. Front fork caps is 30mm socket. Hope that helps someone.
Shame! shame! You didn't read thoroughly! :p
I did include on 2 occasions the 30mm. But I have the wrong Axel hex size. So I'll correct that! Thanks again for the input! It much appreciated!
Good luck with your scoot, and I look forward to you report!
 
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