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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Good article...and an honest article. They hit on some of the beliefs that I share about the brand and it's potential future. The name has value and respect, but just selling the brand name and hitting on some heritage H-D formula will limit them. They need to bring something forward that speaks to their original heritage, which was INNOVATION....not just flared fenders.
Polaris has the tiger by the tail, but I see that they could very easily trap themselves and therefore Indian into an H-D Trick box....and Harely Davidson will kick their A$$es as that game.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Who in there right mind is going to pay $43 thousand for a Indian that has less then 80 horse
 

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Who in there right mind is going to pay $43 thousand for a Indian that has less then 80 horse
Ahhhh...........people were paying a LOT for Kings Mountains Indians around 7 years back or so. Look at the 2009 brochure here with prices. 31K to 34.5K range and they went UP like crazy after 2009 to 2012. So people were paying that for a less then 80 HP engine. Back then. You be the judge here on where you draw the line on how much. I have. Goes for cars and other things too. Especially personal carry knives.






http://cdn.polarisindustries.com/IND/2012/brochures/2009_brochure.pdf
 

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Common Big Daddy, that OP is 4 years old. Try to keep up. This is not a HD forum.
 

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Yeah , the author seems to me , to indicate that Polaris is not putting in the money for Victory so Indian may go the same way.

Well we will find out with time what they intend to do .

HD is planning 15 new models , for next year , if I have my thoughts in order !

What is Indian planning !!!???:);):(:mad::confused::cool::p:D:eek::oops::rolleyes:o_O

If it is just different trim levels of current models ...well they are done !
 

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It's not about Polaris putting money into Indian, it's about India turning a profit. That's basic business 101. It took Eric Buell awhile to figure that out........ :cool:

Polaris and Indian surely have agreed a 3yr./5yr./10yr. business plan. When Indian doesn't deliver the doors will be shuddered and another chapter will be added to the book of Indian History.

Paul
 

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Guys its from 2013, the last paragraph isn't sarcastic because he didn't know about Victory's demise. Victory was riding high (by Victory standards) at the time.

Also, I find it interesting that a lot of people view Victory's demise as an indication of Polaris's lack of commitment to the motorcycle market, because it was eventually shut down. I saw it as just the opposite. I saw its long life, despite not turning a profit during the first DECADE of existence, a sign of Polaris's extreme stubbornness and commitment to entering the motorcycle market, arguably well past the point it made business sense. Buell made more money in motorcycles. Most companies would not be in a position to operate at a loss for that long, never mind stubborn enough to chose to do so. Polaris is convinced there is money to be made in the motorcycle market almost to the point of it being a core religious belief, something they believe in completely and absolutely as an article of faith as if handed down chiseled in stone on top of a mountain. Indian has been profitable almost since day one, Polaris isn't giving that up without a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGG hard fight. Especially as Indian has been boosting revenue while they have been hit by ATV recalls, they will see the benefits of diversification.
 

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You seem to suggest Indian is riding high and has made profits since almost day one. I'd like to see the numbers that show Indian in 2016 was profitable or that Indian has broke even for that matter. I'd be surprised initial development/tooling/start up cost have been recovered to date. Starting a major mfg/development/marketing/support business isn't easy and doesn't come cheap.

Core religious belief, nah, they see a potential to make a profit in that market..... a business opportunity, nut'n more, nut'n less.

I'd say the chance of Indian being around in 2027 is slim. It ain't easy being a startup and the competition is formidable. H-D has survived many crisis and yet survived for over 110 years, tuff as nails they are.

Paul
 

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You seem to suggest Indian is riding high and has made profits since almost day one. I'd like to see the numbers that show Indian in 2016 was profitable or that Indian has broke even for that matter. I'd be surprised initial development/tooling/start up cost have been recovered to date. Starting a major mfg/development/marketing/support business isn't easy and doesn't come cheap.

Core religious belief, nah, they see a potential to make a profit in that market..... a business opportunity, nut'n more, nut'n less.

I'd say the chance of Indian being around in 2027 is slim. It ain't easy being a startup and the competition is formidable. H-D has survived many crisis and yet survived for over 110 years, tuff as nails they are.

Paul
Here are the numbers. Indian had a rough year in 2016 only barely eeking out a profit, they had done better in 2015 when they recouped their expenses.
Polaris Reports 2016 Fourth Quarter And Full Year Results | Polaris Industries

My point was, they are chasing that business opportunity well beyond the point that a rational company would, to the extent it is probably something of an emotional investment in the need to prove they can make money in this market. Like when Ford build the Ford GT to humiliate Ferrari after Ferrari had agreed to sell the company to Ford and then reneged, Ford spared no expense to build the fastest supercar Lemans had ever seen, rational business sense be damned. He came back after his first racers were too fragile and DNF the race and poured even MORE money into the effort, developing the science of aerodynamics in cars as he went (developing new fields of science ain't cheap), despite little application to commuter cars or ability to recoup money from the race. Cause F*%# you Ferarri, that's why. There are easier markets to make money in, that Polaris already competes in. When you set your sights on Harley, it is the business equivalent of climbing Everest or big game hunting. You do it for a challenge, for pride, to prove you can. Maybe when Polaris started Victory, it was a business, but I can promise you, by the time they didn't pull the plug after ten straight years of losses, it was an obsession.

Indian will be here. If not in this iteration, in another. And I honestly doubt it will be another. Read the latest interview, Polaris knows they can't bank on selling bikes on the virtues of valanced fenders forever, more innovation, more segments, more bikes are coming. There is a reason Polaris paid for the name and killed off its own begotten son for its adopted son, the name has a mystique to it.

PS. This isn't the original incarnation of Harley either. They have been bought out and "restructured" a few times. Harley isn't going away, but the Boomers are, and when they do, Harley will have a much smaller piece of the pie.
 

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Friends,
Ok, I'm 59 and hadn't owned a bike in 30 years (kids, expenses, etc). My first bike was a Honda at age 16. My last was a Goldwing. When I began shopping a couple years ago, I thought about an American made bike although Honda's are near bulletproof. Seems everyone and their brother rides a HD. Motus, although nice were way out of my range (kids, college debt). I'd watched Indian's revival in Kings Mountain. When Polaris bought them I knew that's what I wanted...because Polaris had the experience of Victory backing them. I didn't care for Vic styling but my industry friends gave them high quality marks. And check out the Royal Enfield connection. I'd say Polaris understands the diverse global market and is taking the right steps for long term stability.
 
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