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Sounds like the corporate dude was acting like a legendary a$$—- and that’s in keeping with the Indian Motorcycle’s Rider Philosophy. That’s what it says the box my free Indian watch came in, “BE LEGENDARY “ whatever that means. I love my Springfield, but that just feels normal.
 
Discussion starter · #43 ·
I guess my question is if you were trying to test Polaris' acceptance of responsibility, if they would send both manuals, does that also not test yours? If by mistake you were sent both manuals having only ordered one would you have sent the other back or kept it as a bonus? This could have all been avoided by making a call before and clarifying the issue, which you say you did I believe, but still expected the bonus manual. If the price is too good to be true, something is wrong.
Fair. But they made an offer on line. There was no question as to what they posted. There was no ‘bonus manual’. They offered a “print to order” (as their manuals still are) that covered both engine sizes. They accepted my money.

How many times have you called to verify an items description that was posted on line? What has the answer been?

It was after the order was placed they called me asking which I wanted, but the price was the same.

Like I said, if there was some kind of ‘sorry this happened’ kind of thing - I might have been different. I seriously don’t know. I’d think i’d Have understood. I have in the past when someone accept responsibility. In all likelihood i’d have simply canceled the order because the price good for one was not good for two, and we all know there are alternatives online. But I was never given the chance to test my character. They came out as if i’d already taken too much of their time, and aggressive.

My argument was, i purchased ‘print to order’ manuals for both engines. If they liked, they could print both and keep the second binder, I didn’t care (I later found out that these service manuals are no loose leaf like most others so that wasn’t ever an option for them, but they never mentioned that).

Eventually they offered 1/2 price on one. I asked why not 1/2 off of two and we call it a night?
 
Discussion starter · #44 ·
If the OP was that concerned he should have contacted the Federal Trade Commission or his local state Attorney General's office and filed a complaint....Bait and switch is not legal and I'm betting the web site would have been corrected promptly. You did the rest of us a favor by making them get off their big A$$es and fixing content on the site.

Working in I.T. and being a Database Administrator, I get requests to update tables and fix things like this all the time......lol. Some dummy fudges the update and they start selling a product for a nickel when it should be 500 bucks.......lol. in this case a non existent manual with content for the smaller and larger mototrcycles.....
I did contact my States AG Consumer Affairs.

Don’t tell Indian, but i’m still waiting for a return call! LOL

I didn’t think of taking it Federal.
 
Discussion starter · #45 ·
If Indian misplaced a decimal so that the site offered a big bagger for under three grand, and you ordered it, I'd see their point if they said no deal. But it's just a book. Send both books, apologize, and correct the error.

It's like the manager at any restaurant, the one who comps meals. (The only good job in the whole restaurant industry, BTW). Don't argue. What's the odds in that? Doesn't matter if you think the diner is a knucklehead. Just comp the meal and move on. It's called keeping the customer happy.

It would cost them less to send a second manual than what it cost for the time this manager wasted pisszing off a customer. Here's the Mastercard calc:

One book: $20
An hour wasted arguing with a knucklehead: $60
A happy customer: priceless.

"Indian Motorcycle Rider Philosophy" my sweet azz. This manager needs the facts of life explained.
Agreed. But years ago at Sears they had a Lawn Tractor with a Dump Trailor for a crazy low price by it.

Being a red blooded American guy I was just standing there staring at it.

Sales guy walks by and asks, “like it?”
“”YEAH”
Then he notices the price, “Oh no! That’s the wrong price...”
I was thinking that made sense. I’d been watching these things and no way could that be.
He continues, “... my, my! Well, mistake or not, i’ll Sell it to you at that price”
 
Discussion starter · #46 ·
The situation seems like too big of an issue with Polaris being the evil warlord over buying a stupid manual that was not available or falsely advertised. It appears to me that whatever the whole story is it is likely missing a few chapters and written from the authors point of view.
Yes. There is more. And I have been filling in as the discussion progresses.

And yes, it is from my POV. Indian has their marketing arm, we have this. And try as I might, as I reviewed a lot of posts before penning mine, I failed to see one post written in 3rd person, or from the corporate point of view.

However, your posts may be different. I’ll try to read them for pointers.
 
Discussion starter · #47 ·
This is an odd one.
So is the 400c. Ever try to find a clean gas tank for that bike? Notice the C tank is 4 times the price of the A or T tank? Odd indeed
I know! It’s a C! Better yet the compression tests to spec and the tank is age appropriate but in good shape. It’s a fun project.
 
Discussion starter · #48 ·
LOL
At least I found out exactly how to find my Port behind the Headlight!!!!
Having had an Obsolete Harley, when the Mighty MoCo was taking orders, and customers were "paying to wait"... I still don't really see a Huge Problem Here..
But, I still Have the same Obsolete Harley!!!!! [Value Going Up also]
I have an 02 Road Glide. Great bike! Easy to fix if anything goes wrong, and the documentation is tops.

I’m still waiting for mine to start appreciating though. :(
 
Discussion starter · #49 ·
A couple of things Outcast.
IMHO, the ongoing problem that you danced with is, in fact, an issue that has plagued Polaris for many years. On a much larger scale, but still the same problem, was one that existed and showed the ugly side of Polaris way back in the late 90's when many of us, myself included, also took Polaris at their written word and purchased one of the new Polaris motorcycles from that era. Read this clip from Wiki about what happened back then if you would like to glean some insight into how far down the rabbit hole of mistreating customers Polaris Management will go:
""The 1999 and 2000 Victory models experienced serious transmission problems, even with bikes with considerably less than 10,000 miles. This has been corrected with minor revisions in 2001 and a complete redesign in 2002. But, according to Wikipedia, Polaris was aware of the problem with the false neutral transmission from the beginning, and yet –
Polaris did not correct the transmissions in the 1999 and 2000 models and to date has not supported the owners of those bikes by replacing an apparently faulty design."""

Another even more recent example of this could easily be found in considering how Polaris customers who were sold bikes at the IMS 2 days before the announcement to close Polaris Motorcycles other line, The Polaris Victory, must of felt and what it cost them in real $$'s.. They were clearly sold a product on promises that Polaris would continue to support the brand and that great things were in the work - this being promised all the way up to Jan 8, the day that Polaris management pulled the plug!!
Yet another? What about the person(s) who saved and borrowed to pay the 200,000 dollars up front costs to Polaris to open a Victory motorcycle shop and realize a life long dream? Open for less then 5 years, 2 years or even a YEAR - thinking they got a good thing going and then BAM - wake up on the 9th of Jan 2017 to find the world they were in that yesterday they were able to feed their families in was all of a sudden - with NO prior notice = GONE with no recourse (Polaris holds the purse strings and has the best of the best in attorney's)..
Personally Outcast,, I for one think you received far more value for your lost time and $$'s in your recent purchase attempt than many will understand, IF you learned from it and use the lessons learned to enhance your future motorcycle purchasing decision making than you, are in fact, the real winner IMHO..
That was interesting. I didn’t know about the earlier stuff.

I didn’t mention it, but when my wife first picked up her bike, the shifting was horrible. Imagine a ‘90’s Triumph only barn rusted.

I spoke to reps at shows and different dealerships. No one could explain. I asked the obvious, what weight of lubricant are you using in new bikes and is it different after the break in? “Nah, nah, nah, same weight. It just needs to be ridden”

So she takes it in for the 500. And when it comes back, it shifts like a dream.

I checked. They put a heavier oil in.

Why the deception? Lots of manufacturers put different weights in during breakin. What is to be gained by lying? And why wait 500 miles of rough shifting (not that any damage could occur) before swapping oil?

And you are right too about Victory. It’s not like Indian Dealers are as plentiful as Starbucks. Why not convert? All the sales and mechanics already familiar with the line? Nuts.
 
Discussion starter · #50 ·
....or Mr. Sasse is a defective employee who does not represent Polaris business philosophy and needs to be terminated so as not to further tarnish Indian's customer service image. You did mention that he refused to pass you up the corporate line.
Reading other customer service posts it common not to pass you along.

Besides, Polaris reads these. Likely has people posting here. They know.
 
So, if I joined solely to lavish the almighty Polaris with praise you’d be fine? How about big doe eyes ? Better?

Yes. I joined a discussion board to discuss a particular issue. I also plan to see any in put as to why the gear indicator never shows the correct gear, or why not a single dealership can find the electrical port behind the headlight, and the DC phone outlet is still uninstalled from 2015 (btw, no electrical schematic in the service manual but forgive me, I thought i’d search the boards more. Because as often the case on these boards, some a** will ***** because you are not using the boards to his satisfaction.
As far as your gear indicator not showing the correct gear...
How many miles are on your bike and what model is it?

My Chieftain began showing the incorrect gear on the indicator at about 20k miles. At around 30k miles, I put Amsoil 20w-40 in it and it began showing the right gear on the initial oil warmup run. Been working fine ever since.
 
Polaris Management yelled at me and said I didn’t fall within the Indian Philosophy

This all occurred several months ago but Indian decided to solicit my opinion on the purchase just a week ago. Then refused to post my review. This is what I wrote: (spoiler alert, the last paragraph is why this matters)

I went to the Indian website and purchased a manual that was described as being for the Scout and larger motorcycles.

I received a call from a Dealer who was to fulfill the order. He informed me that to avoid problems, he wanted to let me know that the manual was not as described. That corporate refused to correct it. I told him fine, I didn’t care if there were two different manuals as long as I got what was advertised for the stated price.

He said that only corporate could do that. Kilo the fulfillment company that directs orders received by corporate to individual dealers was no help at all.

I contacted customer support and was later contacted by Chris Sasse, Manager of Resolutions. Mr. Sasse acknowledges the long standing problem on the website but refused to supply the manuals for the price advertised. We went back and forth and somewhere between emails (voila!) the website was magically corrected! Imagine that. Over a year of having an error like that online and FINALLY fixing it when someone complained loud enough.

Then it really got interesting. Sasse asked why I needed both manuals when Indian records shows I only have a Chief Vintage. Helllooo Big Brother! I told him the truth. It was none of his business why I purchased any product freely offered for purchase from his company or any other company. I own, or have owned BMW, HD, Kawasaki, Honda, and yes, even a Vespa and not one company asked me to justify a single purchase from them.

Then Cris Sasse takes an interesting position. He will only sell me the manual he thinks I need. Saying that I am not sharing in the same mindset as the Indian Motorcycle’s Rider Philosophy. By god it sounded like I’d been excommunicated from the Indian Motorcycle Cult. Heartbroken as I was, I somehow managed to soldier on.

Chris Sasse, in a less than respectful tone, gave me 48 hours to decide whether or not I would buy a manual from him. So, after a brief search on the internet, I found the big engine manual factory manual free online, and took Mr. Sasse’s offer to buy the Scout Manual. Confused, but no longer asking me to justify my selection, he finally agreed.

So I learned that Indian Motorcycle, as a matter of corporate policy, does not feel compelled by fairness or State Laws to provide the products they advertise. I learned that Indian Motorcycle marketing policy allows them to say anything about any product just to get a pending sale, then make you select from what is actually available. I learned that even on a small dollar sale like a manual, Indian Motorcycle will access your purchase history and what they have about you in their records will determine how they will deal with you. I learned that Indian Motorcycle has an internal Philosophy by which they operate. Customers are judged as to their fitness for inclusion. If you are deemed unfit, or your idea of fairness does not align with the corporate interests of Polaris, you are persona non grata, and will not be treated as a customer but an adversary - no matter how small the issue or consideration of how Indian themselves contributed to the problem at hand.

Dude, why not be that "stand Up' guy and get over yourself....damn, really?

Oh. Chris, the reason I wanted both manuals was simply this: I wanted to see if Indian/Polaris would accept responsibility for a minor problem. It was a matter of character. If you were a stand-up company on small issues you can be trusted on large issues. You proved that Indian/Polaris was willing to coerce, bully, and use its full corporate leverage simply because of an insignificant error. One can only imagine what lengths Indian/Polaris will go through when the error involves product liability or rider safety. Then there was your unwillingness to pass it up the chain. That indicates an aloofness of a Management that is unwilling to meet the customer on any other terms than ones they carefully orchestrate. Again, another indication of a dangerous lack of transparency. Thank you Chris Sasse. You represented your company well. I truly believe you acted in full accordance of your Managements wishes and policy.
 
It would be really interesting, and possibly enlightening to here a equal number of posts from this Mr. Sasse.

Most internet bashings are very one sided.
 
What I get from the OP's original post, sounds like a mountain out of a mole hill. He buys a $20,000 bike and wants to take Indian to the mat over a $2.00 manual for a bike that he doesn't own.
Haven't read all the OP's post but I don't see this being worth a six or seven paragraph complaint as your first post in the forum.
If you want a manual, friggin' buy one for cryin' out loud.
 
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