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While it is somewhat inconvenient here in Kentucky to get PURE gas, I have made the effort to go about 6 tanks on real gas. Here is my non scientific result. 4th gear roll on from 55-75 is noticeably better. Matter of fact I have found myself being more aggressive with the throttle because it's more fun! I have a Scout 60, but I'm sure it applies to all the Scouts.
When I am king I will outlaw ethanol in gasoline. Guess that ain't happening soon.

If you live where you can get premium ethanol free gas, pay the difference. It's worth it. Your bike will thank you.
 

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Ive wondered if it was worth it especially the way the price has gone up. Ive only ever put ethanol free in my motorcycles and small engines. Cars get the cheap stuff. That ethanol worries me especially when theres carburetors.
 

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Well, I was in Oil&Gas for many years.. So, there's a few things I know ( along with a lot I don't) ..
I know enough to know that NO ONE is getting the actual information needed, from ANY news source, that would allow a "educated analysis" of the current situation.

Those that are truly interested, learn about the yield curve of the typical oil shale (fract'd) well . Once you do, you understand that a level of continuous drilling and leasing is mandatory just to sustain overall supply, and a continuously increasing level of activity is required to actually increase overall supply. Hint: about 40% of the total lifetime production from a fract'd well occurs in the first 5 years.



Next, look at the graphs of active drilling rigs over the last 30 years. This is the number of Drilling rigs that are actually drilling for oil.
Rectangle Slope Plot Line Font



Make yourself shelve your politics, and research why the sharp dropoff in active drilling rigs lately: Hint: Research federal policy changes starting Jan 20 2021, concerning leasing, federal drilling royalty increases, permit processing timeframe and approval rates.

Perhaps you'll learn that the Gulf of Mexico, all territorial US waters, and all federal lands, have been cut off from continued oil and gas exploration - and that the costs of exploring on existing leases and private lands has become significantly more expensive and time consuming ( and time is money) .
 

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· Rider
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Well, I was in Oil&Gas for many years.. So, there's a few things I know ( along with a lot I don't) ..
I know enough to know that NO ONE is getting the actual information needed, from ANY news source, that would allow a "educated analysis" of the current situation.

Those that are truly interested, learn about the yield curve of the typical oil shale (fract'd) well . Once you do, you understand that a level of continuous drilling and leasing is mandatory just to sustain overall supply, and a continuously increasing level of activity is required to actually increase overall supply. Hint: about 40% of the total lifetime production from a fract's well occurs in the first 5 years.



Next, look at the graphs of active drilling rigs over the last 30 years. This is the number of Drilling rigs that are actually drilling for oil.
View attachment 688559


Make yourself shelve your politics, and research why the sharp dropoff in active drilling rigs lately: Hint: Research federal policy changes starting Jan 20 2021, concerning leasing, federal drilling royalty increases, permit processing timeframe and approval rates.

Perhaps you'll learn that the Gulf of Mexico, all territorial US waters, and all federal lands, have been cut off from continued oil and gas exploration - and that the costs of exploring on existing leases and private lands has become significantly more expensive and time consuming ( and time is money) .
You don't have to sell me on any of that. I've been following it closely for years. If the goal is to put the US into the horse and buggy age, the last 15 months is the text book game plan. Which ain't accidental.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Ive wondered if it was worth it especially the way the price has gone up. Ive only ever put ethanol free in my motorcycles and small engines. Cars get the cheap stuff. That ethanol worries me especially when theres carburetors.
I saw a video of someone who restores classic bikes. In this case a BSA Lightning. After showing it and riding it, he pointed out that you must completely drain the carbs after riding unless the gas is ethanol free. Ethanol eats carbs.
 

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Ethanol isn’t really a boogeyman for modern engines. Heck high compression turbo applications rather enjoy it for its octane boosting properties. It does, however contain less energy than pure gasoline. I hope I’m right on that one. That’s what I’ve always been told. We are just enjoying ice engines for now. Electric is going to make all of these conversations extinct. :(
 

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Like a recent posted meme said: You ain't gonna sell electric cars if gas is affordable.

And I'm looking forward to a trip to Eureka Springs, AR, first weekend in June. Right next door to the motel is a Conoco station with 91 octane NON ethanol gas. I haven't run the numbers per se but from my previous trips there I know I can go a significant number of more miles on a tank of non ethanol gas.
 

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Like a recent posted meme said: You ain't gonna sell electric cars if gas is affordable.

And I'm looking forward to a trip to Eureka Springs, AR, first weekend in June. Right next door to the motel is a Conoco station with 91 octane NON ethanol gas. I haven't run the numbers per se but from my previous trips there I know I can go a significant number of more miles on a tank of non ethanol gas.
Many studies have been done showing that ethanol reduces mileage by 3-4% compared with pure gas. This also correlates with ethanol's lower energy content. As for reduced miles on a tank, if you get 200 miles on a 111 tank, you'll lose 6-8 miles. And comparing cost/mile, if gas is $4/gal it is cheaper to fill with ethanol if it is more than 12-16 cents less than pure gas.

Ethanol
 

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I try to use non ethanol any chance I can, regardless of cost. In a climate where your toys and equipment sits for the winter, non ethanol is essential, and is better for your equipment. I typically have a jug around for lawnmowers and such.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Many studies have been done showing that ethanol reduces mileage by 3-4% compared with pure gas. This also correlates with ethanol's lower energy content. As for reduced miles on a tank, if you get 200 miles on a 111 tank, you'll lose 6-8 miles. And comparing cost/mile, if gas is $4/gal it is cheaper to fill with ethanol if it is more than 12-16 cents less than pure gas.

Ethanol
Well I don't see the cost argument as having any real validity in a forum of such as this. You got a group of people here who spend a lot of money on two wheeled recreational vehicles and then they spend thousands of dollars squeezing out extra performance. So why wouldn't they spend $0.30 a gallon for extra performance that real gasoline gives them?
 

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Well I don't see the cost argument as having any real validity in a forum of such as this. You got a group of people here who spend a lot of money on two wheeled recreational vehicles and then they spend thousands of dollars squeezing out extra performance. So why wouldn't they spend $0.30 a gallon for extra performance that real gasoline gives them?
Well, we've got multiple threads of people complaining about high gas prices, recessions, expensive aftermarket parts. And other than a slight mileage decrease, there is no "extra performance" from pure gas. Some seem to think there is based on their feelings, but there is no evidence this is anything but in their minds. Ethanol has a higher octane level than gas and is used in high performance racing, so ....
 

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I try to use non ethanol any chance I can, regardless of cost. In a climate where your toys and equipment sits for the winter, non ethanol is essential, and is better for your equipment. I typically have a jug around for lawnmowers and such.
Living in Louisville my bike and equipment sit for the Winter. Now, sometimes in the middle of Winter we may get a day or two of sunny 50 or maybe a little more temps and I can get the bike out for a couple of hours. Then again, sometimes not. But I plan on everything sitting for the Winter so I change out the gas in my mower, 2 chain saws and a generator and try to fill the bake as late in the year as possible. Everything gets fresh gas with a double dose (2 oz. per gallon of gas) of Seafoam then a start up and a 5 minute or so run. I try to do the change out (except for the bike) every 6 months, Mid or late November and again in May and I put a small square of duct tape on the piece of equipment and write the change out date on it. Never ever had a problem with starting or the running of my equipment and that's with ethanol gas cause we ain't got no stinkin' NON ethanol gas other than 87 octane anywhere close to here. And one year, for whatever the reason I got busy and only did part of the change out to some equipment and was going to finish up the next day. Next time I did a change out I looked at the date on the duct tape on my generator and, shit, I missed changing that out the last time so it had been a year. But, in maybe 4 pulls, it started right up LOL.
 

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Admittedly I have not had a problem with non-ethanol and I also use seafoam in the winter. I am in Vermont.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Living in Louisville my bike and equipment sit for the Winter. Now, sometimes in the middle of Winter we may get a day or two of sunny 50 or maybe a little more temps and I can get the bike out for a couple of hours. Then again, sometimes not. But I plan on everything sitting for the Winter so I change out the gas in my mower, 2 chain saws and a generator and try to fill the bake as late in the year as possible. Everything gets fresh gas with a double dose (2 oz. per gallon of gas) of Seafoam then a start up and a 5 minute or so run. I try to do the change out (except for the bike) every 6 months, Mid or late November and again in May and I put a small square of duct tape on the piece of equipment and write the change out date on it. Never ever had a problem with starting or the running of my equipment and that's with ethanol gas cause we ain't got no stinkin' NON ethanol gas other than 87 octane anywhere close to here. And one year, for whatever the reason I got busy and only did part of the change out to some equipment and was going to finish up the next day. Next time I did a change out I looked at the date on the duct tape on my generator and, shit, I missed changing that out the last time so it had been a year. But, in maybe 4 pulls, it started right up LOL.
The MAPCO at the corner of Fern Valley and Preston Highway sells 90 octane ethanol free
 

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The MAPCO at the corner of Fern Valley and Preston Highway sells 90 octane ethanol free
Greg, ya got me all excited. But...., internet article says Mapco "Exited" the Louisville gasoline market in February, just 3 months ago. Found a Mapco on Bardstown Rd with internet pic but then a bubble pops up and says gas sales permanently shut down while the convenience store still operates.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Greg, ya got me all excited. But...., internet article says Mapco "Exited" the Louisville gasoline market in February, just 3 months ago. Found a Mapco on Bardstown Rd with internet pic but then a bubble pops up and says gas sales permanently shut down while the convenience store still operates.
I didn't know they closed.
There is a Race Trac on the south side of E Town which has 90 octane free. It's on Dixie Hwy by the 65/ Western Parkway interchange.
There is also a Shell station at Settlers trace (44) by Taylorsville lake that sells 90 octane ethanol free. If you can run on 87 there are two other stations in E Town that sell it.
The Shell cricket station on 155 in Elk Creek sells 90 ethanol free also.
One more:
Marathon Food Mart - MARATHON
3010 St Joseph Rd, New Albany IN
270-586-8283
Ethanol-free octane ratings: 90
 

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I didn't know they closed.
There is a Race Trac on the south side of E Town which has 90 octane free. It's on Dixie Hwy by the 65/ Western Parkway interchange.
There is also a Shell station at Settlers trace (44) by Taylorsville lake that sells 90 octane ethanol free. If you can run on 87 there are two other stations in E Town that sell it.
The Shell cricket station on 155 in Elk Creek sells 90 ethanol free also.
One more:
Marathon Food Mart - MARATHON
3010 St Joseph Rd, New Albany IN
270-586-8283
Ethanol-free octane ratings: 90
Greg, thanks again for the info. I do get out Taylorsville Rd. sometimes and will check it out. There is or was a website that listed locations for ethanol free gas everywhere and I haven't checked it for years but, previously, the only pure gas anywhere close to me they listed was 87 octane. Wouldn't put that in my bike but I would use it in mower, chain saws, generator and now a pressure washer too.
 

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......................... And other than a slight mileage decrease, there is no "extra performance" from pure gas. Some seem to think there is based on their feelings, but there is no evidence this is anything but in their minds. Ethanol has a higher octane level than gas and is used in high performance racing, so ....

Ahh, @jayred1 , MPG IS a performance metric. Raising MPG thru a fuel change means you've raised performance.

And you raise MPG by employing E0 instead of E10 - it's basic thermodynamics, E0 has a higher energy content than E10.
 

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It is odd to me that you seem to understand that E10 causes a loss of MPG compared to E0 , while at the same time believing that there is no performance difference between the two. You apparently do not realize that MPG IS a performance metric.

A loss or gain of MPG due to a change in fuel blend is a performance change. We don't even need talk about the subjects involved ( Which would mainly be a quick review of the BTU content(energy density) per unit of volume between E0 and E10)...

The whole "thing" about ethanol is that it raises the Octane rating when it is dumped into gasoline - which is good because we can no longer raise Octane via "lead".. However, because it "dumbs down" the gasoline with it's slow burn rate and reduced thermal content, it makes for a lower performance fuel - this lower performance is easily verified as lowered MPG.

Those that think they have more power and throttle response - as well as better MPG - when they start using E0 ( especially a lower octane E0) are standing on solid thermodynamic ( scientific) ground.

And they are right.
About two weeks ago I decided to do a little experiment which required some effort because we do not have many stations that sell ethanol free premium in Central Kentucky. So I did about five hundred miles on my Scout sixty in 75 to 150 mile days of riding. Probably 95% basic cruising on country roads, 45 to 65 mph. I used 90 octane ethanol free - it's essentially impossible to get ethanol free with more than that octane rating.

After the ethanol was completely flushed I noticed that I got a improved throttle response during a roll on from 55 to 70 in 4th gear. That was probably the most noticeable Improvement. The last 300 miles which were basically two 150 mile days I got 57 miles per gallon. That is definitely more than normal by 2 to 4 miles per gallon on summer formulation gasoline.

What is interesting is that where I am there is almost no difference in price between 93 octane premium with ethanol and 90 octane premium without ethanol. So I did not have to spend any more money.
One thing I like about this bike is that doing a roll on from 55 to 70+ in 4th gear it will get up and go
 
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