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Discussion Starter #1
I encourage people to test ride the LiveWire...even if you have experience on the Zero or other. The build quality is unlike any other HD I have owned. The ride is mind-blowing. I did not ride home on the same motorcycle that I took to the dealership. It was that good.

Electric have their place - it is not going to be touring on the highway for a long time - but suburban/urban/countryside riding is well-suited to this platform. If HD can manage to not screw this up, it could grow into something powerful for them. I see a world of co-existing electric and gas, and it is a blast. I hope Indian joins in to push innovation.
 

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Cool for you, but no thanks. Even if I had 30 large laying around there's probably about 2 dozen other things I'd prefer. But to your point, yeah the distant future is most likely electric, unless something better comes along. Cheers.
 

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Indian won't make one anytime soon. There were plans that were shelved after the Victory Empulse did so poorly. You could count on your hands how many of those were sold.

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30 large USD. Forget it. Waste of time and money for a one trick pony that goes 80 miles If you are easy on the throttle.
Glad you like it, enjoy it.
Just like an electric car, forget it.
Not for cold climates or hot climates
 

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I encourage people to test ride the LiveWire...even if you have experience on the Zero or other. The build quality is unlike any other HD I have owned. The ride is mind-blowing. I did not ride home on the same motorcycle that I took to the dealership. It was that good.

Electric have their place - it is not going to be touring on the highway for a long time - but suburban/urban/countryside riding is well-suited to this platform. If HD can manage to not screw this up, it could grow into something powerful for them. I see a world of co-existing electric and gas, and it is a blast. I hope Indian joins in to push innovation.
Your review basically mirrors what everyone else is saying. Cycle World did a comparison with the Zero and despite the price difference they liked the Live Wire better. Enjoy your new bike !


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The future is now. If the ergonomics on the Livewire were a bit less cramped for me, I would be serious about adding one to the stable. The power train is a blast. Right now I have 2 electric bicycles and they bring a grin to my face. The Zero is also a serious contender for my cash.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
regarding the price...do you pay MSRP on your other bikes? I was less than 4K off from a Zero that did not have the added features (and the HD is a much much nicer package).
I guess I expect quite a few in the MC cruiser community to resist electric as cruiser is typically associated with longer distance travel and electric is nowhere near that space, but it is definitely going to play a role in certain areas. From my short time with it, I believe that suburban/urban folks who have not seriously considered a motorcycle will be a new market. For the younger folks, the tech is a lot of fun and actually quite functional/practical. Like all things time will tell. Since I am running out of time, I went for it!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Indian won't make one anytime soon. There were plans that were shelved after the Victory Empulse did so poorly. You could count on your hands how many of those were sold.

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yes, and the package was horrible. in two years the LW I have will be nearly obsolete (unless they can push cellular updates), but man I will have fun in those two years that would take a whole lot of hookers and coke to match
 

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I could never consider paying that kind of mullah for only 2 years worth of fun! Now THAT'S extravagence!!! But I have been considering an electric bicycle. 15 hubdred dollars will get you a nice one and two grand will get you a really good one.
 

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With regards to battery electric motorcycles both the Livewire and Zero machines are obsolete with air cooled battery packs and motors. Just think Nissan Leaf if you need to understand why this is not a good solution going forward. Lest you say that liquid cooled would weigh too much, that simply is not true. Consider the penchant for very heavy motorcycles that Indian and Harley have it should not be too hard to put out a tour model bike that is wholly battery powered. Throwing a fairing on one of these will increase efficiency because aerodynamics is king at highway speeds. The other problem is none of the offerings is really useful as they lack standard storage options and weather protection.

Liquid cooled packs and motors improve longevity, charging speeds, and performance. Current Zero models can get too hot to charge and this in mild weather! DC charging at efficient rates requires liquid cooling. How much does the T116 engine weigh? The 108? Gasoline is around six pounds per gallon plus weight of tank. So there is more than enough weight to work with.
 

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We just haven't invented the flux capacitor yet. When we do everything else will instantly become obsolete LOL.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
With regards to battery electric motorcycles both the Livewire and Zero machines are obsolete with air cooled battery packs and motors. Just think Nissan Leaf if you need to understand why this is not a good solution going forward. Lest you say that liquid cooled would weigh too much, that simply is not true. Consider the penchant for very heavy motorcycles that Indian and Harley have it should not be too hard to put out a tour model bike that is wholly battery powered. Throwing a fairing on one of these will increase efficiency because aerodynamics is king at highway speeds. The other problem is none of the offerings is really useful as they lack standard storage options and weather protection.

Liquid cooled packs and motors improve longevity, charging speeds, and performance. Current Zero models can get too hot to charge and this in mild weather! DC charging at efficient rates requires liquid cooling. How much does the T116 engine weigh? The 108? Gasoline is around six pounds per gallon plus weight of tank. So there is more than enough weight to work with.
LW is liquid cooled (or at least partially - I don't know the full extent, but there is coolant and a radiator)
 

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With regards to battery electric motorcycles both the Livewire and Zero machines are obsolete with air cooled battery packs and motors. Just think Nissan Leaf if you need to understand why this is not a good solution going forward. Lest you say that liquid cooled would weigh too much, that simply is not true. Consider the penchant for very heavy motorcycles that Indian and Harley have it should not be too hard to put out a tour model bike that is wholly battery powered. Throwing a fairing on one of these will increase efficiency because aerodynamics is king at highway speeds. The other problem is none of the offerings is really useful as they lack standard storage options and weather protection.

Liquid cooled packs and motors improve longevity, charging speeds, and performance. Current Zero models can get too hot to charge and this in mild weather! DC charging at efficient rates requires liquid cooling. How much does the T116 engine weigh? The 108? Gasoline is around six pounds per gallon plus weight of tank. So there is more than enough weight to work with.
You are only partially correct, at this level liquid cooling also introduces enough parasitic loss into the system to effect range quite a bit and is also a decent cost driver, part of the reason zero is cheaper than LiveWire.

The other issue is weight will actually have more to do with range than aero. Adding a fairing won't do as much as you think and if you just add more batteries there is a point where there are diminished returns when it comes to a motorcycle packaging.

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If anyone remembers, Polaris bought Brammo. Experimented with electric motorcycles and then sold Brammo off.
That quite simply is your answer to whether there's going to be any electric Indians.
The Impulse TT became a Victory.
This was well before HD came out with the Live Wire.
For the touring market the short range electric motorcycles are not even close to a solution for the customer.
With sales in the tank HD probably halted Live Wire production and will most likely be forced to halt it all together for a while.
 

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I'm kinda lost in all this... everyone and multiple threads are claiming HD is dying because of their business model... "Over priced bikes".. but a over priced electric is going to save the day?... it's going to magically attract all those 20-30 something people to get on a bike?... I thought they weren't for a many reasons but the main one was cost and they couldn't afford it... niche bike for now... and when it finally is mainstay they will have competition from all parts of the globe and by then the Chinese will have won the economic war and you'll be able to buy 10 of theirs for 1 of ours... Indian has already stated they are not going to get into the electric bike game anytime soon... in fact they said they would let the auto mfgs. figure out a reliable 50 state battery first..
 

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Unless the oil companies would give up their monopoly on transportation it's never going to happen. Not in my lifetime and probably not in the next generation either. They have too much political clout in our state and national government. We will be buying gasoline for at least another 50 years and probably more.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I'm kinda lost in all this... everyone and multiple threads are claiming HD is dying because of their business model... "Over priced bikes".. but a over priced electric is going to save the day?... it's going to magically attract all those 20-30 something people to get on a bike?... I thought they weren't for a many reasons but the main one was cost and they couldn't afford it... niche bike for now... and when it finally is mainstay they will have competition from all parts of the globe and by then the Chinese will have won the economic war and you'll be able to buy 10 of theirs for 1 of ours... Indian has already stated they are not going to get into the electric bike game anytime soon... in fact they said they would let the auto mfgs. figure out a reliable 50 state battery first..
definitely not - maybe I was inarticulate. this is a halo product, no way will it sell enough to become profitable. In fact, I would expect the business case is to lose as little as possible. They are creating a new space in their brand. With the pace of technological advancement, it is easily conceivable that in a few years they will be in the 15-20K range. Then it goes back to how people use their bikes. But, heck, HD may ditch this under the new CEO. I can make more money, I can't make more time.
 

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Doesn't matter what electric vehicle you buy (nobody buys to make money) they go into absolute freefall in value. My work bought two Nissan Leafs after Government Subsidy they still came out at ballpark £25k each. 3 years later they were offered £6k each as trade in value. As a footnote these vehicles have a range of about 100 miles, stick heating on -10%. Everything you use impacts on range. Work also bought into a battery leasing deal whereupon they paid £72 per month per vehicle. Come time the batteries need replacing they are replaced free of charge. £72 per month buys quite a bit of gas add the charging expense too? The Nissans when switched out of ECO mode do shift very rapidly and are fun to drive but aesthetically they look rubbish.
For me personally to have the fun I desire on two wheels and go electric it would have to have a real (not speculative) range of about 250 miles and be realistically priced. The Livewire over here are priced at £30k not USD. At that price they can go kiss my swingers.
 

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With regards to battery electric motorcycles both the Livewire and Zero machines are obsolete with air cooled battery packs and motors. Just think Nissan Leaf if you need to understand why this is not a good solution going forward. Lest you say that liquid cooled would weigh too much, that simply is not true. Consider the penchant for very heavy motorcycles that Indian and Harley have it should not be too hard to put out a tour model bike that is wholly battery powered. Throwing a fairing on one of these will increase efficiency because aerodynamics is king at highway speeds. The other problem is none of the offerings is really useful as they lack standard storage options and weather protection.

Liquid cooled packs and motors improve longevity, charging speeds, and performance. Current Zero models can get too hot to charge and this in mild weather! DC charging at efficient rates requires liquid cooling. How much does the T116 engine weigh? The 108? Gasoline is around six pounds per gallon plus weight of tank. So there is more than enough weight to work with.
Personally, I’m waiting on a warp drive; it works by annihilating matter (in the form of deuterium, a kind of hydrogen gas) and antimatter in a fusion reaction mediated by dilithium crystals.(y)
 
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