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So, Instagram user "FTR1200owners" went to great lengths to do a comparison of the tunes offered by Fuel Moto and the Runway Performance. Both using a Dynojet PV-3, with a base map optimized for a stock FTR1200S Race Replica with only just the baffles removed.

With his permission quoting all related posts..

RESULTS ARE IN So let me preface this post quickly before I start talking about the test results. I am by no means affiliated with either company, thus, this is a completely 100% unbiased test. I’m just an average joe rider who wanted to do some research that others aren’t willing to do. Instead of the companies feeding you info about their product, I figured we should let the products speak for themselves. I was fortunate enough to have my local tuner Casey @pure_performance_motorcycles drastically help me out with this project while I was out with a knee injury. The same unmodifed FTR 1200S (with only the baffles removed from the akros) was used for all of the testing to keep things even. Baffle free base maps were acquired from both companies. We started out on the dyno testing the stock bike 6 times, then the fuel moto tune 6 times, then the runway performance tune 6 times. And to be fair, we repeated this process twice so that nothing was uneven. So for those counting, that was 36 @dynojetresearch runs made on what Casey said is a tough machine to make high numbers. All tests were performed at even intervals with even bike temperatures on an 89 degree day with the shop doors open. As we thought would happen, the numbers were very close between the base maps from both companies, however RP made slightly higher numbers than FM on every test. Both tunes outperformed stock substantially. We then started rider testing over the past couple weeks because to be honest, numbers are great but ride quality is the most important factor here. Multiple riders were sent out and each was given the base tune, the RP tune, and the FM tune. None of the riders knew which tune they were testing. Each was asked to provide notes from their riding experience on each ride. I will go over the rider notes when I give a break down of each companies tune in the upcoming 2 posts.



Fuel Moto:

Screen Shot 2019-08-05 at 10.40.59 PM.png


FUEL MOTO The FM test results on the dyno were a little scattered. But the average showed an increase in power and torque from the stock map. 12 dyno tests were done utilizing the FM tune and the high average results are shown in the pic above. The rider test notes are below: -Cold Start issue is gone
-stock redline removed
-stock max speed limiter removed
-bike warms up great
-Unsteady throttle control crossing 4000 rpm
-Release of power on decel was snappy
-some spark knock at 6000 rpm
-no decel babble when letting off throttle
-Hard to gauge the actual power increase between the two companies but easy to feel from stock
-Above 4000 rpm after decel and then accel back into rpm a popping developed that became annoying, every time you roll back into the throttle the pop was there. This became an acceleration pop and happens every time you shift.
After the bike was very warmed up the behavior started to change, and the popping shifted to minimal.
-Decel down shifts can physically jolt you fwd on the bike.
-Fan temps may have been lowered as the temperature of the bike remained fine, however, the physical felt heat from the fan was very high. -Overall riding experience less comfortable than stock but the performance felt was greater


Runway Performance:

Screen Shot 2019-08-05 at 10.43.05 PM.png


Runway Performance The RP dyno results were very consistent across the board. They barely seemed to change between each dyno run making it easy to provide a consistent average. Each run provided a higher increase in power and torque than the stock map. 12 dyno tests were done utilizing the RP tune and the high average results are shown in the pic above. The rider test notes are below: -Cold Start issue is gone
-stock redline removed
-stock max speed limiter removed
-bike warms up great
-Steady throttle at all positions
-Decel babble was just a little more noticeable than the other rides
-overall Decel was smooth
-less spark knock than the other ride but still a quick knock at passing in wide open throttle.
-Decel pop at 4000 rpm or higher with fully closing the throttle will give two pops every time but with controlled decel there was none. This changed the warmer the motorcycle got
-Great rideability and throttle response is on point
-Runs out to red line 9000 RPM in every gear, steady and smooth.
-Overall riding experience is much better than stock in how smooth and cool the bike runs as well as felt power


TUNE RESULTS **DISCLAIMER** (before anyone gets upset, yes I fully understand that individual results may vary. If you’re determined that these results are incorrect, feel free to perform the same tests explained here, I’d love to see results from others. But to the best of my knowledge, no one has done this yet.) I will continue to promote both companies products as I’m very thankful that they’re willing to support our small FTR1200 community. I’m also very thankful to have had the chance to do this and I hope that the information provided was worth your time. Thank you
 

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That would be a question for them.

Fm tunes are “free” when you buy their tuner.

Runway tunes are the tuner plus around $150.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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My problem is that I have already the power vision 3 and it seems that the tune provided by dynojet didn´t solve e.g. the cold start problem for me.
 

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So, Instagram user "FTR1200owners" went to great lengths to do a comparison of the tunes offered by Fuel Moto and the Runway Performance. Both using a Dynojet PV-3, with a base map optimized for a stock FTR1200S Race Replica with only just the baffles removed.

With his permission quoting all related posts..

RESULTS ARE IN So let me preface this post quickly before I start talking about the test results. I am by no means affiliated with either company, thus, this is a completely 100% unbiased test. I’m just an average joe rider who wanted to do some research that others aren’t willing to do. Instead of the companies feeding you info about their product, I figured we should let the products speak for themselves. I was fortunate enough to have my local tuner Casey @pure_performance_motorcycles drastically help me out with this project while I was out with a knee injury. The same unmodifed FTR 1200S (with only the baffles removed from the akros) was used for all of the testing to keep things even. Baffle free base maps were acquired from both companies. We started out on the dyno testing the stock bike 6 times, then the fuel moto tune 6 times, then the runway performance tune 6 times. And to be fair, we repeated this process twice so that nothing was uneven. So for those counting, that was 36 @dynojetresearch runs made on what Casey said is a tough machine to make high numbers. All tests were performed at even intervals with even bike temperatures on an 89 degree day with the shop doors open. As we thought would happen, the numbers were very close between the base maps from both companies, however RP made slightly higher numbers than FM on every test. Both tunes outperformed stock substantially. We then started rider testing over the past couple weeks because to be honest, numbers are great but ride quality is the most important factor here. Multiple riders were sent out and each was given the base tune, the RP tune, and the FM tune. None of the riders knew which tune they were testing. Each was asked to provide notes from their riding experience on each ride. I will go over the rider notes when I give a break down of each companies tune in the upcoming 2 posts.



Fuel Moto:

View attachment 514030

FUEL MOTO The FM test results on the dyno were a little scattered. But the average showed an increase in power and torque from the stock map. 12 dyno tests were done utilizing the FM tune and the high average results are shown in the pic above. The rider test notes are below: -Cold Start issue is gone
-stock redline removed
-stock max speed limiter removed
-bike warms up great
-Unsteady throttle control crossing 4000 rpm
-Release of power on decel was snappy
-some spark knock at 6000 rpm
-no decel babble when letting off throttle
-Hard to gauge the actual power increase between the two companies but easy to feel from stock
-Above 4000 rpm after decel and then accel back into rpm a popping developed that became annoying, every time you roll back into the throttle the pop was there. This became an acceleration pop and happens every time you shift.
After the bike was very warmed up the behavior started to change, and the popping shifted to minimal.
-Decel down shifts can physically jolt you fwd on the bike.
-Fan temps may have been lowered as the temperature of the bike remained fine, however, the physical felt heat from the fan was very high. -Overall riding experience less comfortable than stock but the performance felt was greater


Runway Performance:

View attachment 514032

Runway Performance The RP dyno results were very consistent across the board. They barely seemed to change between each dyno run making it easy to provide a consistent average. Each run provided a higher increase in power and torque than the stock map. 12 dyno tests were done utilizing the RP tune and the high average results are shown in the pic above. The rider test notes are below: -Cold Start issue is gone
-stock redline removed
-stock max speed limiter removed
-bike warms up great
-Steady throttle at all positions
-Decel babble was just a little more noticeable than the other rides
-overall Decel was smooth
-less spark knock than the other ride but still a quick knock at passing in wide open throttle.
-Decel pop at 4000 rpm or higher with fully closing the throttle will give two pops every time but with controlled decel there was none. This changed the warmer the motorcycle got
-Great rideability and throttle response is on point
-Runs out to red line 9000 RPM in every gear, steady and smooth.
-Overall riding experience is much better than stock in how smooth and cool the bike runs as well as felt power


TUNE RESULTS **DISCLAIMER** (before anyone gets upset, yes I fully understand that individual results may vary. If you’re determined that these results are incorrect, feel free to perform the same tests explained here, I’d love to see results from others. But to the best of my knowledge, no one has done this yet.) I will continue to promote both companies products as I’m very thankful that they’re willing to support our small FTR1200 community. I’m also very thankful to have had the chance to do this and I hope that the information provided was worth your time. Thank you

They look pretty much the same. The small differences are within dyno calibration error tolerances.
 

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That would be a question for them.

Fm tunes are “free” when you buy their tuner.

Runway tunes are the tuner plus around $150.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep with free lifetime support when you upgrade the bike. FM for the win.
 

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Same support with runway.

One thing he didn’t add is that runway figured out how to pre load the tunes on the tuner before it’s mailed out to you.

Plug it into your bike, call Ryan and within ten min of unboxing the tuner your bikes ready to go.

Both have their pros and cons.


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I'll think I'll wait a while until either one of the tuners finally get their software working better. Right now it seems RP is on the better track for doing this. However, both tuners still need more R&D IMHO. Let them have the issues (spark knock, decel, etc.) with their demo/test bikes before providing these re-mapping tunes out to the general users.
I won't install anyone's tune until they get it right. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I'll think I'll wait a while until either one of the tuners finally get their software working better. Right now it seems RP is on the better track for doing this. However, both tuners still need more R&D IMHO. Let them have the issues (spark knock, decel, etc.) with their demo/test bikes before providing these re-mapping tunes out to the general users.
I won't install anyone's tune until they get it right. ;)
I can’t speak for FM, but the RP tune is so buttery smooth. It may pop a lttle, but who cares?

It makes the FTR a super fun and easy to ride bike.
 

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NICE.....I see the c/f remained the same which shows a consistency in the weather conditions, ensuring minimal deviation in the runs. Looking at various point in the curves show the Runway tune suits this skoot better than the FM tune. Does it mean the R/W tune is better? No, only better for this skoot. Now IF these same tunes were tried on more skoots with similar mods then a more accurate assessment could be made.
It would be nice to have these runs displayed on one graph to better show the differences.

RACNRAY
 
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Discussion Starter #13
Would like to hear from FM users what their experience is.

My bike with an RP tune runs exactly as the test riders described.

Btw, these graphs only show us the WFO graph and don’t tell much (at all) about mid throttle behaviour, pick up during shifts, how the bike behaves during really light loads, etc...
 

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Would like to hear from FM users what their experience is.

My bike with an RP tune runs exactly as the test riders described.

Btw, these graphs only show us the WFO graph and don’t tell much (at all) about mid throttle behaviour, pick up during shifts, how the bike behaves during really light loads, etc...
I've read nothing but great comments on the FM's FTR 1200 tune.

A couple of things to keep in mind are:
1) Jamie owns an FTR-1200 and is currently riding and dyno developing different component combinations. This is a big deal as he is able to observe over time how his tunes behave on his bike. This is one reason my tunes are good. I develop almost all my tunes on my bike first, then fine tune them on clients.
2) All "canned" tunes will respond differently per engine. I've tuned over 400 Indians these last 3 years and I've found bikes with identical components behave totally different with the same tune. Hence the need to fine tune bikes to make sure it behaves well from idle through WOT.

Bottom line, there are very few competent Indian tuners available. It concerns me when folks are so quick to push out dyno charts to compare one tuner with another, it tends to create strife. I for one am glad both companies have developed FTR-1200 tunes, it will only help our community.
 

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Would like to hear from FM users what their experience is.

My bike with an RP tune runs exactly as the test riders described.

Btw, these graphs only show us the WFO graph and don’t tell much (at all) about mid throttle behaviour, pick up during shifts, how the bike behaves during really light loads, etc...
Zero complaints with FM tune.. very smooth at any load or input.
No popping. Perfect starting. Very linear.
Touching base on @CraigB1960 post about canned tunes on different machines,, I had none of the down sides the test listed on the FM tune. It was what I would call 99% perfect. The 1% is for the fact that it didn't completely remove the Indian throttle blip.. it happened 3 times in about 600 miles.
None of the riding properties were changed from stock, besides it running right, and feeling slightly stronger..
 

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If you scale the charts correctly. they are just about identical


The FM chart scales 0-120 HP and the other one scales 40-110 HP, making it look better which is an optical illusion. Why not use the same scale unless there is some illusions going on.

Guys no difference in tunes


FM Dyno Chart plotted points

4200 RPM = Torque 72 lbs Horsepower 61
5100 RM = Torque 76 lbs Horsepower 76
7000 RPM = Torque 80lbs Horsepower 107
8200 RPM = Torque 70 lbs Horsepower 110 HP



Runaway Indian

4200 RPM = Torque 72 lbs Horsepower 56
5100 RM = Torque 76 lbs Horsepower 76
7000 RPM = Torque 80lbs Horsepower 107
8200 RPM = Torque 70 lbs Horsepower 111 HP
 

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Being a bit picky and focusing just on just the charts? They said in the description the numbers were all but the same.

The ride ability is where they differed.

And to Craig’s point. Runway also owns a ftr. And they have been riding two of them daily for the last two months or so.

Competition drives innovation.

Best thing anyone can do is talk with both companies and decide which is the best fit for them.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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