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Discussion Starter #1
But don’t get too excited. This is the old school strap on fuel controller and not the advanced ECU flash unit like the PV3/PVCX. This will help with the lean AF but since it is piggy back the speed limiter is still there.

Dynojet said they are working on a PV3 for the Challenger but the new Bosch ECU is a ...............Challenge. And it might be a while.
 

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I really don’t see the value in this...would rather wait for a unit that can manipulate the ECM. The PC5 will do nothing to modify the speed and rev limiter. So all you’ll do is modify the fuel/air and still top out at 110.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
There is a lot of talk about S&S coming out with a solution since they are using the Challenger for the Race project. (King of the Baggers) Keep in mind S&S is a business partner with Polaris and makes many engine parts for them, CAMs for the 111/116 are all made by them. They probably have access to the ECU from Polaris to make sure the bike performs at its peak.

The Bosch ECU the Challenger uses is brand new and never been used before on any vehicle, so it may be a while.
 

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Remember, the old PC5's came with 02 eliminators, so they could cover the entire range. It is illegal to sell a tuner that requires removing any emissions control device unless it is for off-road use only.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Remember, the old PC5's came with 02 eliminators, so they could cover the entire range. It is illegal to sell a tuner that requires removing any emissions control device unless it is for off-road use only.

Yep no more over the counter 02 eliminators
 

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Remember ... the PCV was the go to tuner for a long time!

With a PCV you can alter fuelling AND timing(!).
With the Auto Tune option (and eliminator plugs) you even could run closed loop towards cometely different targets than stoich (14.7).

Rev/speed limiters and DBW tables are out of reach, yes, but you can get a super smooth and snappy running bike within those "limits".

As for the eliminator plugs not being part of the over the counter kit ... I would not be too concerned. The right plugs, the right 4 resistors and a wiring diagram would not take too long to find their way into the forums and even grey market :)

so ... not too bad of an outlook!

(and honestly ... even for the TS111s the Bosch ECUs are still only partly "exposed" ... quite complicated bit jes those Bosch ECUs!)

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Unfortunately our Indian ECM's are tied into the VCM's and like Dynojet said, they will have to create a PV version that can retune the Challenger the same way they retune a modified Thunderstroke 111/116. That would require cracking the code. I don't think any of us would mind if they kept the optimum EPA A/F ratios at the mandated rates. Its all the little things that the factory has to do extra to satisfy the noise and emissions at specific industry standards to get the bikes certified legal to sell. How do they accomplish this? Lean out the bike at several check spots, put 1-3/4" baffles in the exhaust, restrict air intake to make less noise. The stage 1 air filter is not really an upgrade. It uses the stock airfilter and airbox. It just adds a snorkel to force more air at speed. The old stage 1 filter ms from the factory and even better from Lloydz flowed more air.
 

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Remember ... the PCV was the go to tuner for a long time!

With a PCV you can alter fuelling AND timing(!).
With the Auto Tune option (and eliminator plugs) you even could run closed loop towards cometely different targets than stoich (14.7).

Rev/speed limiters and DBW tables are out of reach, yes, but you can get a super smooth and snappy running bike within those "limits".

As for the eliminator plugs not being part of the over the counter kit ... I would not be too concerned. The right plugs, the right 4 resistors and a wiring diagram would not take too long to find their way into the forums and even grey market :)

so ... not too bad of an outlook!

(and honestly ... even for the TS111s the Bosch ECUs are still only partly "exposed" ... quite complicated bit jes those Bosch ECUs!)

Sent from my SM-N976Q using Tapatalk
They still won't change the 110 mph speed limiter even if someone comes out with wide band O2. My bike hits the limiter before I can shift out of 5th gear. So why risk losing your warranty if the bike already outruns and stock bagger up to 110. I would gladly forfeit the warranty just to bypass the speed limiter.
 

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They used to work ok on the old open loop fuel injection like I had on my 2004 Vic Kingpin but everything is now closed loop and much more sophisticated. A piggy back controller just doesn't make any sense with the newer electronics.
 

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They used to work ok on the old open loop fuel injection like I had on my 2004 Vic Kingpin but everything is now closed loop and much more sophisticated. A piggy back controller just doesn't make any sense with the newer electronics.
I agree completely. I think the only reason Dynojet is offering it is because they need to get a stop gap solution for those who already purchased midpipes and full 2-1 Bassani systems, to help out the guys at Tab and Bassani and whoever else is making pipes. I don't think they realized how tough it would be to get into the new system. Harley offers a tuner now from the factory that works, but has limited parameters for changes and basically helps fix the flat spots when changes are made, but they did it because you can buy a more advanced tuner from Dynojet for the Milwalkee 8 (I have one for mine and it works great) since I got it Dyno tuned at Dynojet, but the Indian electronics system has so much technology built in, and so many sensors that it is a real challenge to even tune it without either the latest Dynojet hardware or someone like CraigB (from what I hear on the forum), to raise or lower all the tables to get it perfect. On my last bike, 2018 Springfield Dark Horse, I had to get Pat at Dynojet to tune my bike, because the dealer kept changing the base tune every time I brought it in for warranty service, which screwed up the maps that I kept getting from Fuel Moto. Harley, I believe is doing the same thing as Indian. Once they plug your bike into the computer, it updates the software. If you have a PV-CX like I did, it messed up the tune and caused random check engine lights every time one of my maps went beyond the "new range" of parameters. I see why so many people want less sophisticated electronics which equals far less problems. Why motorcycles have to be so finicky and cars don't is beyond me. Maybe Ford and Chevy should buy out Indian and Harley. Ditch the Bosch for the Delco or something like that. Just don't move the plant to Mexico. Lol.
 

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I agree completely. I think the only reason Dynojet is offering it is because they need to get a stop gap solution for those who already purchased midpipes and full 2-1 Bassani systems, to help out the guys at Tab and Bassani and whoever else is making pipes. I don't think they realized how tough it would be to get into the new system. Harley offers a tuner now from the factory that works, but has limited parameters for changes and basically helps fix the flat spots when changes are made, but they did it because you can buy a more advanced tuner from Dynojet for the Milwalkee 8 (I have one for mine and it works great) since I got it Dyno tuned at Dynojet, but the Indian electronics system has so much technology built in, and so many sensors that it is a real challenge to even tune it without either the latest Dynojet hardware or someone like CraigB (from what I hear on the forum), to raise or lower all the tables to get it perfect. On my last bike, 2018 Springfield Dark Horse, I had to get Pat at Dynojet to tune my bike, because the dealer kept changing the base tune every time I brought it in for warranty service, which screwed up the maps that I kept getting from Fuel Moto. Harley, I believe is doing the same thing as Indian. Once they plug your bike into the computer, it updates the software. If you have a PV-CX like I did, it messed up the tune and caused random check engine lights every time one of my maps went beyond the "new range" of parameters. I see why so many people want less sophisticated electronics which equals far less problems. Why motorcycles have to be so finicky and cars don't is beyond me. Maybe Ford and Chevy should buy out Indian and Harley. Ditch the Bosch for the Delco or something like that. Just don't move the plant to Mexico. Lol.
I understand that BMW also uses the Bosch ignition. There 1600 bagger is also limited at a 105 or 110 mph set point. I heard there is a tuner for that system.....
 

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I understand that BMW also uses the Bosch ignition. There 1600 bagger is also limited at a 105 or 110 mph set point. I heard there is a tuner for that system.....
If you can find out the name of the company who sells the tuner, I will pass it on to Pat at Dynojet to research for our bikes.
 

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But don’t get too excited. This is the old school strap on fuel controller and not the advanced ECU flash unit like the PV3/PVCX. This will help with the lean AF but since it is piggy back the speed limiter is still there.

Dynojet said they are working on a PV3 for the Challenger but the new Bosch ECU is a ...............Challenge. And it might be a while.
And I would wait on the PV3 for the Challenger. I agree with Pat's thought on the matter...he is an excellent tuner. The full benefit of tuning the Challenger will be with the PV3.
 

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I agree completely. I think the only reason Dynojet is offering it is because they need to get a stop gap solution for those who already purchased midpipes and full 2-1 Bassani systems, to help out the guys at Tab and Bassani and whoever else is making pipes. I don't think they realized how tough it would be to get into the new system. Harley offers a tuner now from the factory that works, but has limited parameters for changes and basically helps fix the flat spots when changes are made, but they did it because you can buy a more advanced tuner from Dynojet for the Milwalkee 8 (I have one for mine and it works great) since I got it Dyno tuned at Dynojet, but the Indian electronics system has so much technology built in, and so many sensors that it is a real challenge to even tune it without either the latest Dynojet hardware or someone like CraigB (from what I hear on the forum), to raise or lower all the tables to get it perfect. On my last bike, 2018 Springfield Dark Horse, I had to get Pat at Dynojet to tune my bike, because the dealer kept changing the base tune every time I brought it in for warranty service, which screwed up the maps that I kept getting from Fuel Moto. Harley, I believe is doing the same thing as Indian. Once they plug your bike into the computer, it updates the software. If you have a PV-CX like I did, it messed up the tune and caused random check engine lights every time one of my maps went beyond the "new range" of parameters. I see why so many people want less sophisticated electronics which equals far less problems. Why motorcycles have to be so finicky and cars don't is beyond me. Maybe Ford and Chevy should buy out Indian and Harley. Ditch the Bosch for the Delco or something like that. Just don't move the plant to Mexico. Lol.
Harleys are already using Delcos for the ECMs


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Thats probably why we don't hear about all the issues and constant updates that we are stuck with at Indian. Lol
Well you can’t go wrong with Bosch products right ? I mean they are a top tier supplier. I think the problem is trying to get the most performance and stay EPA compliant.
I just had mine Dyno tuned using the SE Pro Tuner with the wide band O2 sensors and the tech dialed it in nicely. With that being said as soon as it’s out of warranty I’m going with Dynajet too.

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