With over 60 years of riding and obviously extensive life and vast engineering experiences and accolades it is sad that in the Autumnal period of riding you experience what you feel to be such a gross injustice. Moto Guzzis are great too as are several other makes. I've just added a BMW R NineT with an airhead boxer engine as a stablemate to my Scout and am absolutely loving it.
Done with Indian. Screwed by Polaris and Montgomery Motors Hawaii
No more new Indians for me.
I have a 1946 Indian Chief Bonneville Roadmaster for over 20 years and I have rebuilt myself from frame and balancing my own flywheels up to an 84 inch stroker. I know this motorcycle nearly down to the atomic level ;-) I have collaborated with Kiwi and others on new parts tests and designs.
It is fast, reliable and a ton of fun. Foot clutch (not that idiot suicide clutch, but a real one), hand shift with a 3 speed crash box transmission. I love this bike.
In 2015 I bought a 2014 Indian Chief Vintage from Eagle Motorcycle Rentals in Los Angeles with 12,000 miles on it, for a fair price and had it shipped to Honolulu. Bike was ok, and found out that Eagle never enters any maintenance records in the Indian database even though they were dealers then. I also found out the "ownership of the bike was never transferred to me". Got that all sorted out eventually. Eagle never transferred to themselves either. Not buying another bike from them again !!!!!
Today it has 33,000 very well cared for and fully maintenance miles on it. I like that engine.
BUT....The bike has had a loud jarring thump on any sharp edge, pot hole or manhole cover or rise. It started in 2021 with about 30,000 miles on it.
It had a noticeable THUMP other riders could hear. And I could feel it in the handlebars and seat. It was happening in the rear suspension and upper shock area . Yes I live on an island, we don't put a lot of miles on them in a year.
I took the bike in, and the dealership was clueless. Could not re-create the noise. I said it is simple you dont' even have to ride it, just jack up the center of the bike, anchor the front end, and lift up and down the rear wheel about 3 inches. They couldnt' feel or hear anything. When I got it home, I did the same thing and THUMP. I guess they were not strong enough to lift it 3 inches.
So I took the entire bike down to the frame myself.
The SOLID STEEL 1" pin that goes through the knuckle joint at the top of the shock system, entering from the left frame hole and ending in the main frame hole....was worn down.
MORE than the wear on either hole in the aluminum left and center frames.
As an experiment I put in a beer can shim (to test the gaps). Softened the thump but no fix.
I bought a new Knuckle joint and a new pin. No joy, the holes the frames were worn.
The thump was from uneven wobbling of the knuckle, the pin and both frame holes. And it only took the thickness of a beer can of wear to make it happen.
I checked out the swing arm by removing it and lubing it after mik'ing the journals and shafts. All ok.
Rear Axle miked out fine, the engine drive sprocket and wheel sprockets were fine. The transmissions was fine, and no thumping from the engine flywheel, rods or pistons, no bad cams or valves.
Yes the bike was out of warranty obviously. We will return to this.
How.....does a STEEL pin wear down MORE than the two soft aluminum frame holes on both sides???
OBVIOUSLY, the steel in the pin was too soft. This is a no brainer and can be easily seen wearing through, because there is no "case hardening" of this pin. I had a Rockwell test done on it. Jesus.
I could have stuck it in the oven with some bonemeal and done a better job.
To help with my own bonafides, I am an old style motorcycle mechanic. Master locksmith, and a pistolsmith with 4 patents on firearms and ammunitions, for 45 years. This my 60th year riding motorcycles, Sixty'ith, and I have owned, ridden, repaired, souped up over 40 different bikes of all nationalities in that time.
The dealership would not open a case with Polaris. They kept saying it was out of warranty. NO KIDDING SHERLOCK, what I wanted to see is if the FACTORY DESIGN DEFECT would be corrected by Polaris without having to sue them.
So I called Polaris, got a wonderful woman who actually cared and did several followups for me - In CUSTOMER SUPPORT. She gave me a ticket number, I gave it to the dealer and we TRIED IT AGAIN. The dealer said,
"that pin is really bad. But it's no longer under warranty."
God almighty are these people stupid. Of course it isn't under warranty it is a BAD DESIGN and that was what I wanted witnessed and discussed.
Who drills two holes in Soft Aluminum frames and sticks a STEEL PIN in them, with no collar, race, cap insert - nothing. Just the hole.
The dealership sent a report to Polaris. it is a badly worn pin. The DID NOT mike the frame holes. And the "shock maybe near the end of service life". After 33K? Ok, maybe it's possible. Not enough to destroy a 1" steel pin.
The kindly woman called me several times to keep me updated at Polaris. Their final report....
This is a "wearable" item (it can wear out) Really ??? in just 30,000 miles?
It is not under warranty. Oh god here we go again.
Of course it isn't.
BUT WHAT if I bought an extended warranty, and I caught this during the TIME of the warranty. Well then they would cover it. But not because it only has 33,000 miles of city riding on it AND it is a factory defect part, and a BADLY designed system, matching aluminum and steel together with no sleeves, collars, caps or bearings on the ends.
Hey I would be happy to give them a bud light can to stick in the aluminum holes so the pin wouldn't ride on the aluminum.
You would think that after looking at 60% of every Indian chief seat bolt holes in the soft aluminum frame that have been stripped out and had to be enlarged from the 6mm to an 8 mm - they would know those frames are soft.
The FIX? I have to buy a left center frame, and a central main frame. About $650 for the left, and up to $900 for the central frame. I do LIKE how easy it is to remove the Chief Tank. A new pin for $100, and keeper clip, another new Knuckle joint $300, and probably will get a new shock $150. All prices are Ebay estimates.
I will also buy a new left front down tube frame, since the two kickstands that have broken, one pinning me under the bike for an hour in the rain on the side of the road, because the tab the kickstand is attached to is BENT. Another $250.
This is only for parts. I will do the labor so I know it is done right. I can't even imagine the estimate from a dealer that marks it all up 50% and charges $150 an hour labor.
After I am happy with the bike repairs and test it, am selling it, and NEVER buying another Polaris Indian. And I will not go back to the ONLY Indian Dealership in Hawaii, Montgomery Motor Sports.
I am going back to my Moto Guzzi Norge. Would not own a Harley again (after 4 of them).
I have a 1946 Indian Chief Bonneville Roadmaster for over 20 years and I have rebuilt myself from frame and balancing my own flywheels up to an 84 inch stroker. I know this motorcycle nearly down to the atomic level ;-) I have collaborated with Kiwi and others on new parts tests and designs.
It is fast, reliable and a ton of fun. Foot clutch (not that idiot suicide clutch, but a real one), hand shift with a 3 speed crash box transmission. I love this bike.
In 2015 I bought a 2014 Indian Chief Vintage from Eagle Motorcycle Rentals in Los Angeles with 12,000 miles on it, for a fair price and had it shipped to Honolulu. Bike was ok, and found out that Eagle never enters any maintenance records in the Indian database even though they were dealers then. I also found out the "ownership of the bike was never transferred to me". Got that all sorted out eventually. Eagle never transferred to themselves either. Not buying another bike from them again !!!!!
Today it has 33,000 very well cared for and fully maintenance miles on it. I like that engine.
BUT....The bike has had a loud jarring thump on any sharp edge, pot hole or manhole cover or rise. It started in 2021 with about 30,000 miles on it.
It had a noticeable THUMP other riders could hear. And I could feel it in the handlebars and seat. It was happening in the rear suspension and upper shock area . Yes I live on an island, we don't put a lot of miles on them in a year.
I took the bike in, and the dealership was clueless. Could not re-create the noise. I said it is simple you dont' even have to ride it, just jack up the center of the bike, anchor the front end, and lift up and down the rear wheel about 3 inches. They couldnt' feel or hear anything. When I got it home, I did the same thing and THUMP. I guess they were not strong enough to lift it 3 inches.
So I took the entire bike down to the frame myself.
The SOLID STEEL 1" pin that goes through the knuckle joint at the top of the shock system, entering from the left frame hole and ending in the main frame hole....was worn down.
MORE than the wear on either hole in the aluminum left and center frames.
As an experiment I put in a beer can shim (to test the gaps). Softened the thump but no fix.
I bought a new Knuckle joint and a new pin. No joy, the holes the frames were worn.
The thump was from uneven wobbling of the knuckle, the pin and both frame holes. And it only took the thickness of a beer can of wear to make it happen.
I checked out the swing arm by removing it and lubing it after mik'ing the journals and shafts. All ok.
Rear Axle miked out fine, the engine drive sprocket and wheel sprockets were fine. The transmissions was fine, and no thumping from the engine flywheel, rods or pistons, no bad cams or valves.
Yes the bike was out of warranty obviously. We will return to this.
How.....does a STEEL pin wear down MORE than the two soft aluminum frame holes on both sides???
OBVIOUSLY, the steel in the pin was too soft. This is a no brainer and can be easily seen wearing through, because there is no "case hardening" of this pin. I had a Rockwell test done on it. Jesus.
I could have stuck it in the oven with some bonemeal and done a better job.
To help with my own bonafides, I am an old style motorcycle mechanic. Master locksmith, and a pistolsmith with 4 patents on firearms and ammunitions, for 45 years. This my 60th year riding motorcycles, Sixty'ith, and I have owned, ridden, repaired, souped up over 40 different bikes of all nationalities in that time.
The dealership would not open a case with Polaris. They kept saying it was out of warranty. NO KIDDING SHERLOCK, what I wanted to see is if the FACTORY DESIGN DEFECT would be corrected by Polaris without having to sue them.
So I called Polaris, got a wonderful woman who actually cared and did several followups for me - In CUSTOMER SUPPORT. She gave me a ticket number, I gave it to the dealer and we TRIED IT AGAIN. The dealer said,
"that pin is really bad. But it's no longer under warranty."
God almighty are these people stupid. Of course it isn't under warranty it is a BAD DESIGN and that was what I wanted witnessed and discussed.
Who drills two holes in Soft Aluminum frames and sticks a STEEL PIN in them, with no collar, race, cap insert - nothing. Just the hole.
The dealership sent a report to Polaris. it is a badly worn pin. The DID NOT mike the frame holes. And the "shock maybe near the end of service life". After 33K? Ok, maybe it's possible. Not enough to destroy a 1" steel pin.
The kindly woman called me several times to keep me updated at Polaris. Their final report....
This is a "wearable" item (it can wear out) Really ??? in just 30,000 miles?
It is not under warranty. Oh god here we go again.
Of course it isn't.
BUT WHAT if I bought an extended warranty, and I caught this during the TIME of the warranty. Well then they would cover it. But not because it only has 33,000 miles of city riding on it AND it is a factory defect part, and a BADLY designed system, matching aluminum and steel together with no sleeves, collars, caps or bearings on the ends.
Hey I would be happy to give them a bud light can to stick in the aluminum holes so the pin wouldn't ride on the aluminum.
You would think that after looking at 60% of every Indian chief seat bolt holes in the soft aluminum frame that have been stripped out and had to be enlarged from the 6mm to an 8 mm - they would know those frames are soft.
The FIX? I have to buy a left center frame, and a central main frame. About $650 for the left, and up to $900 for the central frame. I do LIKE how easy it is to remove the Chief Tank. A new pin for $100, and keeper clip, another new Knuckle joint $300, and probably will get a new shock $150. All prices are Ebay estimates.
I will also buy a new left front down tube frame, since the two kickstands that have broken, one pinning me under the bike for an hour in the rain on the side of the road, because the tab the kickstand is attached to is BENT. Another $250.
This is only for parts. I will do the labor so I know it is done right. I can't even imagine the estimate from a dealer that marks it all up 50% and charges $150 an hour labor.
After I am happy with the bike repairs and test it, am selling it, and NEVER buying another Polaris Indian. And I will not go back to the ONLY Indian Dealership in Hawaii, Montgomery Motor Sports.
I am going back to my Moto Guzzi Norge. Would not own a Harley again (after 4 of them).
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Tl;dr
3 sides to every story.
Machines break down over time and some more than others.
Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
3 sides to every story.
Machines break down over time and some more than others.
Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
Every brand has problems; believe me, I know as I ride Harleys. That being said, my on again-off again flirting with the idea of buying an Indian just keep running into accounts of what trouble they are.
I've had great/fantastic service out of the Japanese bikes I've owned and own but do yearn for something different. If they just had more power, I'd be on a Moto Guzzi. I did like the two BMW GS bikes I had - a decade or so apart, but will never own another BMW as their dealerships make Harley Stealerships looks like the Red Cross.
Polaris, an American company, should just up their game, hire someone to re-do the electronics, solve the incessant computer issues and capture the market segment of the folks like me who are frustrated with the H-D MoCo, like big baggers for big roads/big trips and would really prefer to buy American.
So sorry for your travails but thank you for sharing.
I've had great/fantastic service out of the Japanese bikes I've owned and own but do yearn for something different. If they just had more power, I'd be on a Moto Guzzi. I did like the two BMW GS bikes I had - a decade or so apart, but will never own another BMW as their dealerships make Harley Stealerships looks like the Red Cross.
Polaris, an American company, should just up their game, hire someone to re-do the electronics, solve the incessant computer issues and capture the market segment of the folks like me who are frustrated with the H-D MoCo, like big baggers for big roads/big trips and would really prefer to buy American.
So sorry for your travails but thank you for sharing.
Sorry to hear about your bad experience. I've seen similar stories for just about every brand of motorcycles and cars. Since you're in HI with limited dealers of any brand, I would choose one with the best representation/most dealers and support.
Just so we're clear: a wearable part wore down... after 30,000 miles, almost half of which were at a rental company where it was probably abused. And your complaint isn't that the part isn't wearable but that the company who built it won't agree with you on what constitutes acceptable wear versus premature wear indicative of a design flaw.
Please enlighten us: what is the acceptable mileage for this pin and what is your evidence - other than personal opinion and capitalizing the word STEEL - that this pin should not have been able to wear that quickly?
Please enlighten us: what is the acceptable mileage for this pin and what is your evidence - other than personal opinion and capitalizing the word STEEL - that this pin should not have been able to wear that quickly?
I was getting a … clunk … out of the rear on my ‘14 Vintage. I bought it with around 40k miles. I did not start hearing the noise until I had around 43k-44k miles on the bike … I would also occasionally bottom out if I hit a harsh bump. I took it to the dealer for the 45k service. I mentioned it and showed them I could lift the rear end and push down on it and it would … clunk. All they said was ride it, keep an eye on it and see if it gets worse … Well it stayed about the same. I started reading about folks changing the manual shock for the Air Shock on the Vintage, easier to adjust, more travel and a better ride. I found a used one with 53k miles on it (from a 2019 Springfield) … sent it to Fox for a rebuild and around 47k miles, I installed it on my Vintage. Sure enough it’s a better ride. I have not bottomed out and the clunk is gone. (I did not replace the pin. I only inspected it and greased it.) I extended the air fill to the right side to make it more convenient. I’m at 62k miles and no shock issues … From reading this forum it seems the only folks experiencing the clunk have the manual shock. (Vintage, Chief Classic and Dark Horse versions), (A squeak is the other complaint).
If you’re going to replace the rear shock get a used air shock, have it rebuilt by Fox … install it and enjoy the ride … if you can get a newer one from a Trike conversion… it might save the rebuild cost … it cost me, Shock $200, Rebuild $90 plus $35 round trip shipping, install $75, I rent a lift at a local shop and do my own work. $400 total …
If you’re going to replace the rear shock get a used air shock, have it rebuilt by Fox … install it and enjoy the ride … if you can get a newer one from a Trike conversion… it might save the rebuild cost … it cost me, Shock $200, Rebuild $90 plus $35 round trip shipping, install $75, I rent a lift at a local shop and do my own work. $400 total …
No more new Indians for me.
I have a 1946 Indian Chief Bonneville Roadmaster for over 20 years and I have rebuilt myself from frame and balancing my own flywheels up to an 84 inch stroker. I know this motorcycle nearly down to the atomic level ;-) I have collaborated with Kiwi and others on new parts tests and designs.
It is fast, reliable and a ton of fun. Foot clutch (not that idiot suicide clutch, but a real one), hand shift with a 3 speed crash box transmission. I love this bike.
In 2015 I bought a 2014 Indian Chief Vintage from Eagle Motorcycle Rentals in Los Angeles with 12,000 miles on it, for a fair price and had it shipped to Honolulu. Bike was ok, and found out that Eagle never enters any maintenance records in the Indian database even though they were dealers then. I also found out the "ownership of the bike was never transferred to me". Got that all sorted out eventually. Eagle never transferred to themselves either. Not buying another bike from them again !!!!!
Today it has 33,000 very well cared for and fully maintenance miles on it. I like that engine.
BUT....The bike has had a loud jarring thump on any sharp edge, pot hole or manhole cover or rise. It started in 2021 with about 30,000 miles on it.
It had a noticeable THUMP other riders could hear. And I could feel it in the handlebars and seat. It was happening in the rear suspension and upper shock area . Yes I live on an island, we don't put a lot of miles on them in a year.
I took the bike in, and the dealership was clueless. Could not re-create the noise. I said it is simple you dont' even have to ride it, just jack up the center of the bike, anchor the front end, and lift up and down the rear wheel about 3 inches. They couldnt' feel or hear anything. When I got it home, I did the same thing and THUMP. I guess they were not strong enough to lift it 3 inches.
So I took the entire bike down to the frame myself.
The SOLID STEEL 1" pin that goes through the knuckle joint at the top of the shock system, entering from the left frame hole and ending in the main frame hole....was worn down.
MORE than the wear on either hole in the aluminum left and center frames.
As an experiment I put in a beer can shim (to test the gaps). Softened the thump but no fix.
I bought a new Knuckle joint and a new pin. No joy, the holes the frames were worn.
The thump was from uneven wobbling of the knuckle, the pin and both frame holes. And it only took the thickness of a beer can of wear to make it happen.
I checked out the swing arm by removing it and lubing it after mik'ing the journals and shafts. All ok.
Rear Axle miked out fine, the engine drive sprocket and wheel sprockets were fine. The transmissions was fine, and no thumping from the engine flywheel, rods or pistons, no bad cams or valves.
Yes the bike was out of warranty obviously. We will return to this.
How.....does a STEEL pin wear down MORE than the two soft aluminum frame holes on both sides???
OBVIOUSLY, the steel in the pin was too soft. This is a no brainer and can be easily seen wearing through, because there is no "case hardening" of this pin. I had a Rockwell test done on it. Jesus.
I could have stuck it in the oven with some bonemeal and done a better job.
To help with my own bonafides, I am an old style motorcycle mechanic. Master locksmith, and a pistolsmith with 4 patents on firearms and ammunitions, for 45 years. This my 60th year riding motorcycles, Sixty'ith, and I have owned, ridden, repaired, souped up over 40 different bikes of all nationalities in that time.
The dealership would not open a case with Polaris. They kept saying it was out of warranty. NO KIDDING SHERLOCK, what I wanted to see is if the FACTORY DESIGN DEFECT would be corrected by Polaris without having to sue them.
So I called Polaris, got a wonderful woman who actually cared and did several followups for me - In CUSTOMER SUPPORT. She gave me a ticket number, I gave it to the dealer and we TRIED IT AGAIN. The dealer said,
"that pin is really bad. But it's no longer under warranty."
God almighty are these people stupid. Of course it isn't under warranty it is a BAD DESIGN and that was what I wanted witnessed and discussed.
Who drills two holes in Soft Aluminum frames and sticks a STEEL PIN in them, with no collar, race, cap insert - nothing. Just the hole.
The dealership sent a report to Polaris. it is a badly worn pin. The DID NOT mike the frame holes. And the "shock maybe near the end of service life". After 33K? Ok, maybe it's possible. Not enough to destroy a 1" steel pin.
The kindly woman called me several times to keep me updated at Polaris. Their final report....
This is a "wearable" item (it can wear out) Really ??? in just 30,000 miles?
It is not under warranty. Oh god here we go again.
Of course it isn't.
BUT WHAT if I bought an extended warranty, and I caught this during the TIME of the warranty. Well then they would cover it. But not because it only has 33,000 miles of city riding on it AND it is a factory defect part, and a BADLY designed system, matching aluminum and steel together with no sleeves, collars, caps or bearings on the ends.
Hey I would be happy to give them a bud light can to stick in the aluminum holes so the pin wouldn't ride on the aluminum.
You would think that after looking at 60% of every Indian chief seat bolt holes in the soft aluminum frame that have been stripped out and had to be enlarged from the 6mm to an 8 mm - they would know those frames are soft.
The FIX? I have to buy a left center frame, and a central main frame. About $650 for the left, and up to $900 for the central frame. I do LIKE how easy it is to remove the Chief Tank. A new pin for $100, and keeper clip, another new Knuckle joint $300, and probably will get a new shock $150. All prices are Ebay estimates.
I will also buy a new left front down tube frame, since the two kickstands that have broken, one pinning me under the bike for an hour in the rain on the side of the road, because the tab the kickstand is attached to is BENT. Another $250.
This is only for parts. I will do the labor so I know it is done right. I can't even imagine the estimate from a dealer that marks it all up 50% and charges $150 an hour labor.
After I am happy with the bike repairs and test it, am selling it, and NEVER buying another Polaris Indian. And I will not go back to the ONLY Indian Dealership in Hawaii, Montgomery Motor Sports.
I am going back to my Moto Guzzi Norge. Would not own a Harley again (after 4 of them).
I'm with you, this will be my one and only Indian. The fiasco with the 10/20 amp auto reset breaker and lack of support from the local dealer is enough to convince me to look elsewhere for a ride.
My suggestion is to do a modification to the frame where the pin resides. I would bore the holes larger, and install needle bearings of the capacity to bear the weight of your rear end and wheel, etc. get a case hardened pin, and lubricate it at set intervals.
‘Being that you are a capable machinist, and have done all the venerable research and development for different mechanical things, including firearms, this shouldn’t be above your skill level. Have you ever lubricated the shock mounts before? If not, make it a maintenance routine.
Charlie
‘Being that you are a capable machinist, and have done all the venerable research and development for different mechanical things, including firearms, this shouldn’t be above your skill level. Have you ever lubricated the shock mounts before? If not, make it a maintenance routine.
Charlie
This is the same idea I was thinking except instead of bearings fit brass bushings. Could even off center the bore just enough to give a little bit of lowering to the bike as well. Making it better and making it your own at the same time.My suggestion is to do a modification to the frame where the pin resides. I would bore the holes larger, and install needle bearings of the capacity to bear the weight of your rear end and wheel, etc. get a case hardened pin, and lubricate it at set intervals.
‘Being that you are a capable machinist, and have done all the venerable research and development for different mechanical things, including firearms, this shouldn’t be above your skill level. Have you ever lubricated the shock mounts before? If not, make it a maintenance routine.
Charlie
I do understand the frustration with the dealership, that's why mine have never seen them for maintenance, only been in there for recalls, warranty, and a couple tire changes (which made me purchase my own tire changer/balancer machines). I really think it's a corporate mentality thing, where it's always been about the bottom dollar but the individual dealers used to really invest in the customer base. At least that's what I've gathered and seen in different dealerships.
I hope it works out for you. I went with Indian, and will continue to, because they are an American based company and make reliable machines. Knowing that no brand cares about my personal opinion, and none are perfect. Just like cars, they all have some kind of issue, you just have to decide which one you can live with. I would much rather deal with issues like this than engine failure if I had chosen the other American based brand...
Maybe the pin should have grease channels and a fitting on the end. Metal on aluminum always concerned me even from a dissimilar corrosion aspect.
I am over 60 myself, have spent a life time dealing with engineers, was a lead man on the B1-B bomber project, traveled around the country doing mods on them after the contract ended, had my A&P license and worked as an airline mechanic for years, moved to heavy trucks when aviation started going south, have a machine shop in my garage, and have been building custom cars, motorcycles, etc in my spare time for my whole life so I do have a bit of experience in mechanical stuff too.
The holes in the frame, in all likelihood, are not actually worn out. The pin is a loose fit in the frame holes BY DESIGN, from the factory, and new parts will not tighten it up. The hole in the frame is a loose running fit with the pin because the pin needs to be easily removed and reinstalled for maintenance. This is accomplished (as I'm sure you are aware by now) by jacking the frame till the tire is just supporting the weight of the swing arm and the frame is not putting load on the pin in either direction. This condition would be almost impossible to achieve if the hole were a sliding or location fit. Also, the rocker assembly rides on needle roller bearings that bear directly on the shaft. These will wear into the shaft and cause a bit of extra play over time, and for this reason the shaft and bearings are indeed considered wear items.
I understand your frustration because I've been down the entire path you describe. When my bike (2014 Classic) was brand new it had the same clunk on sharp bumps. I got the same response from my dealer (no problem found). I took it all apart and checked everything and found the same things you did. What I didn't do was immediately assume that I was smarter than Polaris engineers. I did pack the needle bearings well with thick grease, as well as greased the bores in the frame and the pin on reassembly. The grease did the trick, for the most part, by damping the free motion when the suspension unloads over sharp bumps. Every time I change the oil, or put new tires on, I remove the pin (necessary to remove the wheel anyway), clean everything out a bit and inspect, and reassemble with fresh grease. I've got over 150,000 miles on it now, and it hasn't gotten worse. I did replace the pin and needle roller bearings once when the pin started to show fretting from the bearings, as is normal for a wear item. It does still clunk a bit on a sharp hit, but I've learned that's just the nature of the beast. It's normal, as they say.
Nobody "screwed" you. You weren't treated unfairly. You weren't even mildly disregarded. In fact, from your own description of the actions you took and the responses you received, I'd say you made yourself a PIA and were met with extreme kindness and understanding. Just because they didn't automatically comply with your world view doesn't make them bad people.
The holes in the frame, in all likelihood, are not actually worn out. The pin is a loose fit in the frame holes BY DESIGN, from the factory, and new parts will not tighten it up. The hole in the frame is a loose running fit with the pin because the pin needs to be easily removed and reinstalled for maintenance. This is accomplished (as I'm sure you are aware by now) by jacking the frame till the tire is just supporting the weight of the swing arm and the frame is not putting load on the pin in either direction. This condition would be almost impossible to achieve if the hole were a sliding or location fit. Also, the rocker assembly rides on needle roller bearings that bear directly on the shaft. These will wear into the shaft and cause a bit of extra play over time, and for this reason the shaft and bearings are indeed considered wear items.
I understand your frustration because I've been down the entire path you describe. When my bike (2014 Classic) was brand new it had the same clunk on sharp bumps. I got the same response from my dealer (no problem found). I took it all apart and checked everything and found the same things you did. What I didn't do was immediately assume that I was smarter than Polaris engineers. I did pack the needle bearings well with thick grease, as well as greased the bores in the frame and the pin on reassembly. The grease did the trick, for the most part, by damping the free motion when the suspension unloads over sharp bumps. Every time I change the oil, or put new tires on, I remove the pin (necessary to remove the wheel anyway), clean everything out a bit and inspect, and reassemble with fresh grease. I've got over 150,000 miles on it now, and it hasn't gotten worse. I did replace the pin and needle roller bearings once when the pin started to show fretting from the bearings, as is normal for a wear item. It does still clunk a bit on a sharp hit, but I've learned that's just the nature of the beast. It's normal, as they say.
Nobody "screwed" you. You weren't treated unfairly. You weren't even mildly disregarded. In fact, from your own description of the actions you took and the responses you received, I'd say you made yourself a PIA and were met with extreme kindness and understanding. Just because they didn't automatically comply with your world view doesn't make them bad people.
Sorry for your issues. As Evil Monkey said, many have replaced the shock with Fox Air Shock. I will have a slightly (8k miles) one for sale soon, as I am installing Fox lowering shock. PM me if you are interested.No more new Indians for me.
I have a 1946 Indian Chief Bonneville Roadmaster for over 20 years and I have rebuilt myself from frame and balancing my own flywheels up to an 84 inch stroker. I know this motorcycle nearly down to the atomic level ;-) I have collaborated with Kiwi and others on new parts tests and designs.
It is fast, reliable and a ton of fun. Foot clutch (not that idiot suicide clutch, but a real one), hand shift with a 3 speed crash box transmission. I love this bike.
In 2015 I bought a 2014 Indian Chief Vintage from Eagle Motorcycle Rentals in Los Angeles with 12,000 miles on it, for a fair price and had it shipped to Honolulu. Bike was ok, and found out that Eagle never enters any maintenance records in the Indian database even though they were dealers then. I also found out the "ownership of the bike was never transferred to me". Got that all sorted out eventually. Eagle never transferred to themselves either. Not buying another bike from them again !!!!!
Today it has 33,000 very well cared for and fully maintenance miles on it. I like that engine.
BUT....The bike has had a loud jarring thump on any sharp edge, pot hole or manhole cover or rise. It started in 2021 with about 30,000 miles on it.
It had a noticeable THUMP other riders could hear. And I could feel it in the handlebars and seat. It was happening in the rear suspension and upper shock area . Yes I live on an island, we don't put a lot of miles on them in a year.
I took the bike in, and the dealership was clueless. Could not re-create the noise. I said it is simple you dont' even have to ride it, just jack up the center of the bike, anchor the front end, and lift up and down the rear wheel about 3 inches. They couldnt' feel or hear anything. When I got it home, I did the same thing and THUMP. I guess they were not strong enough to lift it 3 inches.
So I took the entire bike down to the frame myself.
The SOLID STEEL 1" pin that goes through the knuckle joint at the top of the shock system, entering from the left frame hole and ending in the main frame hole....was worn down.
MORE than the wear on either hole in the aluminum left and center frames.
As an experiment I put in a beer can shim (to test the gaps). Softened the thump but no fix.
I bought a new Knuckle joint and a new pin. No joy, the holes the frames were worn.
The thump was from uneven wobbling of the knuckle, the pin and both frame holes. And it only took the thickness of a beer can of wear to make it happen.
I checked out the swing arm by removing it and lubing it after mik'ing the journals and shafts. All ok.
Rear Axle miked out fine, the engine drive sprocket and wheel sprockets were fine. The transmissions was fine, and no thumping from the engine flywheel, rods or pistons, no bad cams or valves.
Yes the bike was out of warranty obviously. We will return to this.
How.....does a STEEL pin wear down MORE than the two soft aluminum frame holes on both sides???
OBVIOUSLY, the steel in the pin was too soft. This is a no brainer and can be easily seen wearing through, because there is no "case hardening" of this pin. I had a Rockwell test done on it. Jesus.
I could have stuck it in the oven with some bonemeal and done a better job.
To help with my own bonafides, I am an old style motorcycle mechanic. Master locksmith, and a pistolsmith with 4 patents on firearms and ammunitions, for 45 years. This my 60th year riding motorcycles, Sixty'ith, and I have owned, ridden, repaired, souped up over 40 different bikes of all nationalities in that time.
The dealership would not open a case with Polaris. They kept saying it was out of warranty. NO KIDDING SHERLOCK, what I wanted to see is if the FACTORY DESIGN DEFECT would be corrected by Polaris without having to sue them.
So I called Polaris, got a wonderful woman who actually cared and did several followups for me - In CUSTOMER SUPPORT. She gave me a ticket number, I gave it to the dealer and we TRIED IT AGAIN. The dealer said,
"that pin is really bad. But it's no longer under warranty."
God almighty are these people stupid. Of course it isn't under warranty it is a BAD DESIGN and that was what I wanted witnessed and discussed.
Who drills two holes in Soft Aluminum frames and sticks a STEEL PIN in them, with no collar, race, cap insert - nothing. Just the hole.
The dealership sent a report to Polaris. it is a badly worn pin. The DID NOT mike the frame holes. And the "shock maybe near the end of service life". After 33K? Ok, maybe it's possible. Not enough to destroy a 1" steel pin.
The kindly woman called me several times to keep me updated at Polaris. Their final report....
This is a "wearable" item (it can wear out) Really ??? in just 30,000 miles?
It is not under warranty. Oh god here we go again.
Of course it isn't.
BUT WHAT if I bought an extended warranty, and I caught this during the TIME of the warranty. Well then they would cover it. But not because it only has 33,000 miles of city riding on it AND it is a factory defect part, and a BADLY designed system, matching aluminum and steel together with no sleeves, collars, caps or bearings on the ends.
Hey I would be happy to give them a bud light can to stick in the aluminum holes so the pin wouldn't ride on the aluminum.
You would think that after looking at 60% of every Indian chief seat bolt holes in the soft aluminum frame that have been stripped out and had to be enlarged from the 6mm to an 8 mm - they would know those frames are soft.
The FIX? I have to buy a left center frame, and a central main frame. About $650 for the left, and up to $900 for the central frame. I do LIKE how easy it is to remove the Chief Tank. A new pin for $100, and keeper clip, another new Knuckle joint $300, and probably will get a new shock $150. All prices are Ebay estimates.
I will also buy a new left front down tube frame, since the two kickstands that have broken, one pinning me under the bike for an hour in the rain on the side of the road, because the tab the kickstand is attached to is BENT. Another $250.
This is only for parts. I will do the labor so I know it is done right. I can't even imagine the estimate from a dealer that marks it all up 50% and charges $150 an hour labor.
After I am happy with the bike repairs and test it, am selling it, and NEVER buying another Polaris Indian. And I will not go back to the ONLY Indian Dealership in Hawaii, Montgomery Motor Sports.
I am going back to my Moto Guzzi Norge. Would not own a Harley again (after 4 of them).
it would be interesting to see what Moto Guzi would do with a 9 year old bike wear item being bad... or Honda or any other mfg as far as that goes...
Must have been an issue as mine, a 2018 RM, has a caged needle bearing in the bore. It gets inspected at every tire change because it gets removed to replace the tire.
The Vic X bikes had the same thing with that pin.
Cool thanks for letting us know. Good luck!No more new Indians for me.
I have a 1946 Indian Chief Bonneville Roadmaster for over 20 years and I have rebuilt myself from frame and balancing my own flywheels up to an 84 inch stroker. I know this motorcycle nearly down to the atomic level ;-) I have collaborated with Kiwi and others on new parts tests and designs.
It is fast, reliable and a ton of fun. Foot clutch (not that idiot suicide clutch, but a real one), hand shift with a 3 speed crash box transmission. I love this bike.
In 2015 I bought a 2014 Indian Chief Vintage from Eagle Motorcycle Rentals in Los Angeles with 12,000 miles on it, for a fair price and had it shipped to Honolulu. Bike was ok, and found out that Eagle never enters any maintenance records in the Indian database even though they were dealers then. I also found out the "ownership of the bike was never transferred to me". Got that all sorted out eventually. Eagle never transferred to themselves either. Not buying another bike from them again !!!!!
Today it has 33,000 very well cared for and fully maintenance miles on it. I like that engine.
BUT....The bike has had a loud jarring thump on any sharp edge, pot hole or manhole cover or rise. It started in 2021 with about 30,000 miles on it.
It had a noticeable THUMP other riders could hear. And I could feel it in the handlebars and seat. It was happening in the rear suspension and upper shock area . Yes I live on an island, we don't put a lot of miles on them in a year.
I took the bike in, and the dealership was clueless. Could not re-create the noise. I said it is simple you dont' even have to ride it, just jack up the center of the bike, anchor the front end, and lift up and down the rear wheel about 3 inches. They couldnt' feel or hear anything. When I got it home, I did the same thing and THUMP. I guess they were not strong enough to lift it 3 inches.
So I took the entire bike down to the frame myself.
The SOLID STEEL 1" pin that goes through the knuckle joint at the top of the shock system, entering from the left frame hole and ending in the main frame hole....was worn down.
MORE than the wear on either hole in the aluminum left and center frames.
As an experiment I put in a beer can shim (to test the gaps). Softened the thump but no fix.
I bought a new Knuckle joint and a new pin. No joy, the holes the frames were worn.
The thump was from uneven wobbling of the knuckle, the pin and both frame holes. And it only took the thickness of a beer can of wear to make it happen.
I checked out the swing arm by removing it and lubing it after mik'ing the journals and shafts. All ok.
Rear Axle miked out fine, the engine drive sprocket and wheel sprockets were fine. The transmissions was fine, and no thumping from the engine flywheel, rods or pistons, no bad cams or valves.
Yes the bike was out of warranty obviously. We will return to this.
How.....does a STEEL pin wear down MORE than the two soft aluminum frame holes on both sides???
OBVIOUSLY, the steel in the pin was too soft. This is a no brainer and can be easily seen wearing through, because there is no "case hardening" of this pin. I had a Rockwell test done on it. Jesus.
I could have stuck it in the oven with some bonemeal and done a better job.
To help with my own bonafides, I am an old style motorcycle mechanic. Master locksmith, and a pistolsmith with 4 patents on firearms and ammunitions, for 45 years. This my 60th year riding motorcycles, Sixty'ith, and I have owned, ridden, repaired, souped up over 40 different bikes of all nationalities in that time.
The dealership would not open a case with Polaris. They kept saying it was out of warranty. NO KIDDING SHERLOCK, what I wanted to see is if the FACTORY DESIGN DEFECT would be corrected by Polaris without having to sue them.
So I called Polaris, got a wonderful woman who actually cared and did several followups for me - In CUSTOMER SUPPORT. She gave me a ticket number, I gave it to the dealer and we TRIED IT AGAIN. The dealer said,
"that pin is really bad. But it's no longer under warranty."
God almighty are these people stupid. Of course it isn't under warranty it is a BAD DESIGN and that was what I wanted witnessed and discussed.
Who drills two holes in Soft Aluminum frames and sticks a STEEL PIN in them, with no collar, race, cap insert - nothing. Just the hole.
The dealership sent a report to Polaris. it is a badly worn pin. The DID NOT mike the frame holes. And the "shock maybe near the end of service life". After 33K? Ok, maybe it's possible. Not enough to destroy a 1" steel pin.
The kindly woman called me several times to keep me updated at Polaris. Their final report....
This is a "wearable" item (it can wear out) Really ??? in just 30,000 miles?
It is not under warranty. Oh god here we go again.
Of course it isn't.
BUT WHAT if I bought an extended warranty, and I caught this during the TIME of the warranty. Well then they would cover it. But not because it only has 33,000 miles of city riding on it AND it is a factory defect part, and a BADLY designed system, matching aluminum and steel together with no sleeves, collars, caps or bearings on the ends.
Hey I would be happy to give them a bud light can to stick in the aluminum holes so the pin wouldn't ride on the aluminum.
You would think that after looking at 60% of every Indian chief seat bolt holes in the soft aluminum frame that have been stripped out and had to be enlarged from the 6mm to an 8 mm - they would know those frames are soft.
The FIX? I have to buy a left center frame, and a central main frame. About $650 for the left, and up to $900 for the central frame. I do LIKE how easy it is to remove the Chief Tank. A new pin for $100, and keeper clip, another new Knuckle joint $300, and probably will get a new shock $150. All prices are Ebay estimates.
I will also buy a new left front down tube frame, since the two kickstands that have broken, one pinning me under the bike for an hour in the rain on the side of the road, because the tab the kickstand is attached to is BENT. Another $250.
This is only for parts. I will do the labor so I know it is done right. I can't even imagine the estimate from a dealer that marks it all up 50% and charges $150 an hour labor.
After I am happy with the bike repairs and test it, am selling it, and NEVER buying another Polaris Indian. And I will not go back to the ONLY Indian Dealership in Hawaii, Montgomery Motor Sports.
I am going back to my Moto Guzzi Norge. Would not own a Harley again (after 4 of them).
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