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Discussion Starter #1
So, I don't post much... usually just to help folks out here and there. But feel like I need to post so to save some folks some money before they get too far in with Dynojet. If happy with the stock tunes they offer (not many) then this is a great product. If you like to tinker as many of us do however, you may want to read on......

First, the guys there are polite and friendly. BUT.... and this is a huge but, their product is going downhill fast.

2016 bought my Indian Chief. Changed pipes and ac. Immediately bought the PVCX. Fell in love with it right away. Was able to compare the canned tunes that Dynojet had for the unit to the stock and was able to tinker to my hearts delight. No issues at all... was able to load the djt files, compare to the stk file all day long, and then save as a new tune that I want to run and see how it goes.

Flash forward to Dec 2018. Traded up to my 18 Roadmaster. Was at first angry about the 200 cost to "unmarry" the dynojet from my old bike but got over it and yesterday bit the bullet. Loaded a canned tune (not that there were many to choose from... very slim pickins). Went to do a comparison of the stk file to the djt file and bam... password required? Huh? Never had that issue in past with the tunes on the chief classic and Dynojets tunes from back then.

Email Dynojet for help... and this is an exact quote "All Dynojet delivered tunes are password locked for everyone's protection. You can still open the stock STK file, make any changes desired and save as a DJT file to flash. Then comparing the stock STK file to the DJT you create is possible."

Wait, for Everyone's protection? Huh? How are they protecting me by locking me out from tinkering with their canned tune vs the stk file? Oh wait, for their fiscal protection? They have 6 canned tunes and want me to have to pay more money yet to do a custom tune that I can do myself to better match my setup (been doing this kind of stuff in performance cars LONG before tuners were available for the modern indians).

Will be the last dynojet product for me after this experience. Like I said, nice enough folks but the only rationale I can think of is the idea that they need to lock everyone down for the almighty dollar? Don't like the canned tunes? You can spend ANOTHER 200 to get a custom tune.......That gets old quick and seems they abandoned what made them so popular when they first launched the PVCX for the Indians which for some of us were tunes we could compare and tinker with.

Reminiscent of Windows PC's vs Apple? Open system we can build ourselves vs closed end to end?.... same reason I have ZERO apple products.

In the words of famous movie character "that's all I got to say about that".
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Linux vs Windows/Apple you meant?;)
Ohhh, even better reference.. yes forgot about Linux.

I was referring to the ability to build my own machines however I want but yes, Linux vs other OS's is a bit more appropriate analogy!!! Thanks for that!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Guess I will add that I still have my old djt files from the Chief classic that I can use as baselines to start over with on the roadmaster and tinker with... at least those are not password protected and I can look at them and tinker.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Dusty at Dynojet emailed me and said they should still be able to do the comparison exactly as we used to in the past ... not sure what the glitch is but if that is the case, then I may have been a little quick on the trigger here with my concerns... will keep this up to date as it goes along.
 

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@scottscar54 , I would like to invite you to share your knowledge and findings regarding your "tinkering".

Are you "messing around" with initial throttle response ? Throttle progression(s) response ? Performance engine operations ?
Are you modifying closed loop scope and/or breadth ?
 

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Dynojet, Fuel Motto, and others are starting to lock down tunes to protect them from other companies from stealing their work which has and still is happening.


Fuel Moto, and Dynojet buy these bikes to dyno and offer tunes to those who buy the flash units. They spend time and money developing tunes. What they want to stop is "backyard dyno shops" from simply copying their tunes and selling it as the "backyard dyno's own tune"

Also lets say someone downloads a tune from Dynojet or FM, and then they tweak the timing tables incorrectly and damaged the engine due to detonation, then guess who gets blamed, Dynojert and FM for something they did not do.

As far as marring the unit to the bike, this is to keep the guy from flashing the entire riding group with a tune for free. This practice is standard procedure now in the software/hardware industry due to the fact people like to steal and get a free lunch without working or paying for it.

Yes it sucks but all the thieves and dishonest people in the work make these things happen unfortunately.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Wish there were some secret to it LOL...I just go in and tinker with A/F ratios mostly. I sit and go box by box making comparison from DJT to STK file, then looking at my driving style and where the bike needs some improvement, then tinker and try it out. Since I am not hotrodding the bike, I am good with the throttle responses... just trying to squeeze every MPG out while reducing heat and improving performance and have had best success messing with A/F ratios......
 

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Wish there were some secret to it LOL...I just go in and tinker with A/F ratios mostly. I sit and go box by box making comparison from DJT to STK file, then looking at my driving style and where the bike needs some improvement, then tinker and try it out. Since I am not hotrodding the bike, I am good with the throttle responses... just trying to squeeze every MPG out while reducing heat and improving performance and have had best success messing with A/F ratios......
So you are tinkering with the VE table or just the Target AFR table ?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Dynojet, Fuel Motto, and others are starting to lock down tunes to protect them from other companies from stealing their work which has and still is happening.


Fuel Moto, and Dynojet buy these bikes to dyno and offer tunes to those who buy the flash units. They spend time and money developing tunes. What they want to stop is "backyard dyno shops" from simply copying their tunes and selling it as the "backyard dyno's own tune"

Also lets say someone downloads a tune from Dynojet or FM, and then they tweak the timing tables incorrectly and damaged the engine due to detonation, then guess who gets blamed, Dynojert and FM for something they did not do.

As far as marring the unit to the bike, this is to keep the guy from flashing the entire riding group with a tune for free. This practice is standard procedure now in the software/hardware industry due to the fact people like to steal and get a free lunch without working or paying for it.
Been doing it long enough that I know not to make crazy adjustments... assuming that we are all idiots not capable of using the software is rather insulting actually. People who tinker generally know that they run a risk... just like the 35 years of muscle car building I have done.. yup, blown up a motor or two ... those can be the breaks when I got too crazy or messed up the tuning.. some minute detail I may have overlooked and loaded something that went bad with timing, a/f ratio, or some other stupid think I forgot to check. I knew that was the risk.

Your email reads as if I didn't buy the unit or I am trying to get over on the company. I actually own my tuner, paid the unmarry fee which as I said, I got over.... but the ability to modify the tunes for my bike is why I bought it in the first place. Otherwise I could just as well have Indian flash a new tune for me. I guess from the tenor of your email, you are presuming we are all a bunch of crooks and I must have devious motives for why I posted.

I understand the need to protect intellectual property... no issue with that.... but then make sure people know they cannot tune with their software... except that is exactly what their product is for so???????? If it is just to get a canned tune, I would not have purchased in the first place but the ability to tinker with tunes was what got me to Dynojet PVCX over other tuners that were out there. That one aspect set them apart for Indian motorcycles. Without that, no different then any of the others.

Posted to point out a change that seems to have been made recently with the PCVX and the ability for us tinkerers to tune..... if none of this information is helpful to you feel free to move on along. Wont bother me a bit. I don't have any desire or need to defend my experience, skills, or background so doesn't concern me one way or another... just posting an FYI on something interesting I found and some things that I am sure I bother consumers and many may want to be aware of. If it helps someone, great, if not then it is just more internet fodder.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
So you are tinkering with the VE table or just the Target AFR table ?
Main Target AFR... mostly. Just small changes here and there... haven't done anything too crazy with it. Haven't really messed with the Volume Efficiency at all.
 

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Thank you Dusty at Dynojet!! He fixed the problem for me... so now when I get off work I can back to some tinkering!!!!
 

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If you like to tinker, then build your own tunes from the stock one. That is how I start on all tunes that I develop. I give out the equations that @cmoalem and I developed for public consumption, all you have to do is ask. I've also written a blog that goes through how to develop your own custom tune, My Indian Roadmaster Blog.

The PVCX was developed for two purposes, to provide the user with a means to load in "canned" tunes, and to provide the tuner a device to develop both custom and canned tunes. The Dynojet Power Core Software is very powerful and hopefully soon will have "User" levels that even though the tune is password protected, will allow the user to change parameters like Drive By Wire tables and Target AFR table. That capability has not been implemented yet.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
If you like to tinker, then build your own tunes from the stock one. That is how I start on all tunes that I develop. I give out the equations that @cmoalem and I developed for public consumption, all you have to do is ask. I've also written a blog that goes through how to develop your own custom tune, My Indian Roadmaster Blog.

The PVCX was developed for two purposes, to provide the user with a means to load in "canned" tunes, and to provide the tuner a device to develop both custom and canned tunes. The Dynojet Power Core Software is very powerful and hopefully soon will have "User" levels that even though the tune is password protected, will allow the user to change parameters like Drive By Wire tables and Target AFR table. That capability has not been implemented yet.
You do have a good blog indeed. Have read it many times. Not sure how I didn't connect you to that but your blog was one of the most informative and fun I have read. When I bought the tuner, it was only after spending some time with your blog. I didn't know how similar modern motorcycle tuning was to the cars I work on (my previous bikes were all carbureted and hadn't had a computer controlled bike before my 16 Chief Classic) so your blog was somewhat inspirational to get me going on my own bike and want to say also THANK YOU for publishing that information for us all!!!!
 

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Main Target AFR... mostly. Just small changes here and there... haven't done anything too crazy with it. Haven't really messed with the Volume Efficiency at all.
Hey man, I salute your efforts and this thread.. Obviously, this thread will help a multitude of us who want to "tinker" with our bikes' DJ tune..

Good luck and keep us posted ..

P.S. Check your "Inbox" , I just sent you one..
 

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You do have a good blog indeed. Have read it many times. Not sure how I didn't connect you to that but your blog was one of the most informative and fun I have read. When I bought the tuner, it was only after spending some time with your blog. I didn't know how similar modern motorcycle tuning was to the cars I work on (my previous bikes were all carbureted and hadn't had a computer controlled bike before my 16 Chief Classic) so your blog was somewhat inspirational to get me going on my own bike and want to say also THANK YOU for publishing that information for us all!!!!
Thank you for the kind words!
 

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Wait, for Everyone's protection? Huh? How are they protecting me by locking me out from tinkering with their canned tune vs the stk file?
are you really confused as to why a company won't allow you to go in and revise a tune they spent quite a lot of time creating themselves?

based on the knoweldge you describe, why is it so hard to create a canned tune yourself ??
 

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How do you compare tunes without being able to open the locked tune? And if you can actually compare tunes without viewing one of them, it would take only minutes to duplicate it.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

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oh nice, password protected tunes. My Scout is not accepting any custom DBW values and can go dangerously into limp mode. Since all DJ tunes are now password protected I can't change DBW to stock, so basically can't use any DJ maps. Just installed Zippers intake and stuck waiting for FM to comeback with a tune.
 
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