Challenger Cams Available Soon?

4512 Views 79 Replies 26 Participants Last post by Dakotaunchained, 7 d ago

TigerGA

Discussion Starter · 3 mo ago

Just saw this posted by Lloydz on YouTube. I know we heard this about a year ago that Lloydz Challenger cams are “coming soon.” This is the latest update of “soon,” which is 2-3 months. We’ll see…

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DutchVDub

· #61 · 10 d ago

I think there are only 4 people that managed to get in on the initial release of Lloydz cams, so I don't think we'll be seeing numbers anytime soon for the Lloydz cam/112BBK combo.

There is a cam service tool (P/N: PF-52939) that is used to press down on the rockers and release the pressure on the camshaft. I asked my dealership about buying one and its apparently a "service dept only" item and not available for retail. They didn't seem too keen on my offer to buy them a replacement if they "forgot" it outside of the shop door one evening. LOL It actually looks like it would be fairly easy to make yourself. Its basically a flat bar that goes across two of the valve cover bolts with integrated spacers to prevent over tightening along with some "fingers" on the underside to press down on the rocker directly above the valve.

I wouldn't attempt to ride my bike the 2 hours to my dealership after installing cams. Now if you go to your dealership for the Stage 2 cams, then they'll obviously be able to download the correct software onto the bike. If you're having them install Lloydz cams (once they're available obviously) then it depends on wether they're a Lloydz Remote Tuning Center (RTC) or not. If they are, then they'll be able to flash the bike with the appropriate tune from Lloydz. If not, then you'll need to send your ECU off to get flashed.

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DutchVDub

· #62 · 10 d ago

Lutch said:
I‘m sorry guys, I hated doing this, but I couldn’t wait any longer and I am moving on…. My new toy is much faster and has everything I’ve been looking for, comfort, agility and f…… fast!

TRAITOR!!!!

.!..

..!.

J/K, hope you enjoy the new scoot. Hopefully that isn't one of the BMW's that won't let you start it if the service indicator hits 0 miles remaining.

Reactions: 1

Dakotaunchained

· #63 · 10 d ago

DutchVDub said:
I think there are only 4 people that managed to get in on the initial release of Lloydz cams, so I don't think we'll be seeing numbers anytime soon for the Lloydz cam/112BBK combo.

There is a cam service tool (P/N: PF-52939) that is used to press down on the rockers and release the pressure on the camshaft. I asked my dealership about buying one and its apparently a "service dept only" item and not available for retail. They didn't seem too keen on my offer to buy them a replacement if they "forgot" it outside of the shop door one evening. LOL It actually looks like it would be fairly easy to make yourself. Its basically a flat bar that goes across two of the valve cover bolts with integrated spacers to prevent over tightening along with some "fingers" on the underside to press down on the rocker directly above the valve.

I wouldn't attempt to ride my bike the 2 hours to my dealership after installing cams. Now if you go to your dealership for the Stage 2 cams, then they'll obviously be able to download the correct software onto the bike. If you're having them install Lloydz cams (once they're available obviously) then it depends on wether they're a Lloydz Remote Tuning Center (RTC) or not. If they are, then they'll be able to flash the bike with the appropriate tune from Lloydz. If not, then you'll need to send your ECU off to get flashed.

View attachment 745905

does it do damage to the bike to ride it with upgraded cams on a stage one or stock tune?

DutchVDub

· #64 · 10 d ago

Considering the cams are going to change the way the bike wants fuel and ignition timing, I can't imagine it would be overly good for it. If it does run it'll probably run like crap and be very unhappy.

Dakotaunchained

· #65 · 10 d ago

DutchVDub said:
Considering the cams are going to change the way the bike wants fuel and ignition timing, I can't imagine it would be overly good for it. If it does run it'll probably run like crap and be very unhappy.

i know it won’t be happy, and definitely not optimal, i just live 3 mins from my buddy’s shop and didn’t know if i should plan on riding it home before sending off the ecu or if i should be sending it while it’s in his shop….

Purdue93

· #66 · 10 d ago

Lutch said:
I‘m sorry guys, I hated doing this, but I couldn’t wait any longer and I am moving on…. My new toy is much faster and has everything I’ve been looking for, comfort, agility and f…… fast! View attachment 743899

Nice bike, but a 6’4” I cannot take the ridding posIrion.

Reactions: 2

DutchVDub

· #67 · 9 d ago

Dakotaunchained said:
i know it won’t be happy, and definitely not optimal, i just live 3 mins from my buddy’s shop and didn’t know if i should plan on riding it home before sending off the ecu or if i should be sending it while it’s in his shop….

If you're that close I'd definitely just send it out while its getting done. Worse case scenario he finishes and needs it gone, you could just push it home. LOL

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JonR

· #68 · 9 d ago

DutchVDub said:
I'm definitely ready for these to come out. My warranty is up now anyway and I want more power. If it wasn't for the cost of admission I'd be going Stage 2 cams just to hold me over, but thats a lot of money fora minimal gain. I've been looking into doing it myself but can't get the rocker release tool and according to RVS I'll still need the dealer flash/tune installed before I send him my ECU, so that means trailer the bike to the dealership anyways after doing the work.

The Revolution/M3 BBK is also very tempting. They're reporting similar numbers with the Stage 2 cams and 112 kit as what was shown with the Lloydz cams. Now combine the two and holy heck. Brannon said that their race bike's 112 setup makes less torque than the street kit, but just over 180hp!! Custom head, custom cams, custom intake/tb setup, and stand alone ECM all involved there so not exactly street practical. Still, it shows the potential these engines have.

Hopefully by the end of the summer we will finally see some serious options being available. Ideally for me would be to get the 112 kit and Lloydz cams to install myself while waiting on the ECU to get shipped back/forth without any trips to a dealership. Do I need 160-180hp in a bike that has zero problems hauling butt well beyond legal speeds with just a tune and 2:1 exhaust? Of course not, but I want it. Like a fat girl in a purple suit, I want it and I want it NOW. LOL

I’d have to disagree….you DO need 160-180hp. 😂

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DutchVDub

· #69 · 9 d ago

JonR said:
I’d have to disagree….you DO need 160-180hp. 😂

Twist my arm why don't you.

To be fair, I had a 160hp touring bike at one time. It even weighed in at almost 200lbs less than the Challenger. In the end though after 9-10,000 miles I just wasn't as comfortable on the Kawasaki Concours 14 as I was on my previous Vulcan Vaquero. I did want more power and better handling than the Vulcan though so after a decent test ride I traded the Connie in for a Victory XC. That bike was fantastic and I do sometimes wish that I'd held onto it. I think overall the Challenger is the better bike, but man was the XC roomy and nice for long trips. Especially 2-Up, the luggage capacity and seating space were superior to anything else out there. The wife and I have talked about getting another one just to use for 2-Up riding again. Neither of us think that my Challenger or her Chieftain can be setup to match the XC-T in overall touring comfort.

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Dakotaunchained

· #70 · 9 d ago

ooof i’d love 160. 150/150 like the built harleys would be cool too. if aggressive cams get me to 135/135 i can live with that

TedMan

· #71 · 9 d ago

Baron58 said:
Lloydz (Ryan) will have it unlocked here pretty soon. Apparently, they have made a lot of progress.

Does this go for the new Chief, as well?

Baron58

· #72 · 8 d ago

TedMan said:
Does this go for the new Chief, as well?

only the 2023 PP108 bikes are locked

TedMan

· #73 · 8 d ago

Baron58 said:
only the 2023 PP108 bikes are locked

Should have been more clear. If Ryan unlocks the 2023 Challengers, does this imply the 2023 Chiefs, as well?

Baron58

· #74 · 8 d ago

TedMan said:
Should have been more clear. If Ryan unlocks the 2023 Challengers, does this imply the 2023 Chiefs, as well?

Only the 2023 PP 108 engines are locked. So if its not a 2023 PP108 its not locked

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Dieseldoc

· #75 · 8 d ago

I have heard my 2023 Scout is locked also.Polaris may be using the same ECU across all lines or Bosch has changed thier software to comply worldwide,EPA,EU,ADR,etc.

Baron58

· #76 · 8 d ago

Dieseldoc said:
I have heard my 2023 Scout is locked also.Polaris may be using the same ECU across all lines or Bosch has changed thier software to comply worldwide,EPA,EU,ADR,etc.

Bosch is behind the new encryption.

Even if the tuners crack it, they will have a newer one. So, what I can see happening, is guys get cams and a custom tune. Then they have to take the bike to the dealer. The dealer flashes a new encrypted tune, and they are now the bike is a paper weight because of the new cams or 112 kit, it won't run, and it will take the tuners another year or longer to crack it.

It's not like sending the new stock tune to FM or Dynojet to get a new file definition.

cmoalem

· #77 · 8 d ago

low tech:
I see a revival of the good old piggyback Powercommander V with Autotune and closed loop with widebands.

Narrowband eliminator plugs can be had on ebay/china/DIY ...

fugg it

reminds me of the old days when no one had access to the ECUs at all!

the high tech version:
replacement ECUs will have a higher demand. Adaptations of the Thundermax, Haltec, AEM, Speeduino with a nice tuner software package ...

I want to OWN my bike!

Time to lock out dealer and motherships from OUR bikes ... after warranty has expired.

And they can shove the warranty "somewhere" ... all engines seem to have uncovered "design flaws" anyway which show after 2 years warranty expiry. And even in the warranty itself early "clackers" were washed off as "normal" and "tolerance stacking". BUT the newer engines got some tiny tweaks which made new customers happy (But no touchy crappy lean or pinging tunes). (The early customers who actually held on to the brand and raised reputation can eat sh... imagine I had been already locked out back then: Would have ditched the Indian and would have bought something else ... a BMW e.g. ... locked out too but on a different quality and power level!)

Sent from my SM-N976Q using Tapatalk

Sent from my SM-N976Q using Tapatalk

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TedMan

· #78 · 7 d ago

Part of the reason, not all by any means, I bought a '21 vintage for my project. S3 cams in a 111 with fm support. Plenty fast for me and reliable/simple electronics wise.

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BigBadAllis

· #79 · 7 d ago

Just had a very long conversation with someone very close to the ECU lock down Polaris/Indian is trying very hard to control the tuning and modification to the ECU's. As we all know, we take should expect to take some responsibility when we install aftermarket parts and have aftermarket tuning done. Polaris has been receiving a lot of calls from customers complaining about their bikes throwing codes and not operating properly after tuning or Cams. This results is customer sharing dissatisfaction of the Indian products when it's no fault of Indian/Polaris. There's some great dealers and independents that can properly install parts and tune with no issues and there's others that make a mess for everyone.

Indian has some issues but overall not any worse than other manufacturers. On this forum, I see a lot of complaints from people about their bikes throwing codes and bashing Indian yet they have a long list of modifications that they're so proud that ultimatly is the rot of the problem.

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Dakotaunchained

· #80 · 7 d ago

my worthless two cents would think the first encryption would be good enough from an epa liability perspective, continually encrypting it seems like extra credit…oh well, i hope they crack the ‘23s so i can add cams and a tune and then never go back to the dealer, or if i do, request they don’t touch the tune

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