[CraigB1960]

Also on stock engines exhaust and intake do nothing to increase performance. As for the exhaust, the best power numbers come from the stock exhaust, no one beats it period. Lloyd Greer of Lloydz performance states this and dyno charts on Fuel Motto's website show the same thing. The air intake on the stock bikes is pretty optimized. You might see 2 to 4 HP on the top end at 5400 RPM, so if you drag race wide open it makes a difference.

I tend to agree, however the stock intake is restrictive...but so are some aftermarket "performance" AC's. I was dynotuning a new exhaust and the company had put a Performance Machine on the bike. It was producing 74 HP & 106 TQ, which is stock. Pulled the filter and immediately the output was where it should be for a stage 1..i.e. 81HP and 110 TQ. So performance wise, knock the plugs out of your stock slip-ons and spend a little coin on the AC and PV3 and you get a pretty good step up in performance for the price.

As far as exhaust, the stock header with CAT is hard to beat. The Jackpot Header will match or slightly increase and greatly reduce the heat. One of the best exhaust I've found is the Rinehart Slimline Duals. It flows very well throughout the complete RPM range.

 

[CraigB1960]

The best part of the custom programs is the ability to change throttle sensitivity on the drive by wire bikes.

I agree on pre-2019 bikes. But with the Drive Modes now on the 2019 and later bikes, not so much. I have modified a few stock DBW tables for those that wanted different curves in those modes, but the majority are happy with the factory settings.

I think one of the biggest value of the PV3 is making corrections to the timing tables. Really wakes up the bike nicely. Changes to the limits as well as knock sensor changes are significant as well. Smoothing out the fueling and balancing the fuel to the cylinders improve the overall behavior of the engine throughout its operating range.

There are a ton of new tables that Dynojet has exposed over the last year that really helps the tuner to address issues that in the past was a struggle.

 

[Grayrat]

If you get Tunes from Dynojet, Fuel Motto, CraigB, and other reputable tuners no damage will occur. The stock Indian tune is over-rich in many areas. The PV3 tunes address overly aggressive ignition timing at low to mid power settings which results in detonation and pinging, better fly by wire throttle adjustment, also the better tune will minimize misfires which trigger engine codes.

In fact guys who have custom PV3/PVCX tunes have much few engine codes due to the better setup of the fuel/air/spark delivery.

I totally agree. I bought a PVCX for my Last Indian 111 and a PV for my girlfriends HD Fatboy 114 from Fuel Moto and they worked ok but over time they threw engine codes a lot. I think because the manufacturers keep messing with the base tune every time the dealer plugs into the computer. I finally at different times had Dynjet retune both bikes And they performed perfectly at every throttle position, but I had the luxury of having dynojet hq in my back your. The Harley was 30% too rich, out of nowhere and the dealer had plugged it i to the Harley computer to turn on cruise control which she bought for a 4000 mile trip. And just plugging it in must have total messed up the base tune.

 

[Walt]

The "factory lean" tune is a little bit of internet mis-information. Yes it is true especially on water cooled bikes the tunes are indeed lean. On the 111/116 bikes the AF ratio is set to 14.7.1 on closed loop mode which is around idle to 3500 rpm and light to moderate loads, this is a lean mixture, but at higher power settings the AF ratios are too lean robbing power. Also the ignition timing profiles are too advanced at low poer settings and too retarded at high power settings.

Also keep in mind the aftermarket tunes from Fuel Motto, Dynojet and craigB don't increase torque or HP much at all. But rideability and response is improved. On a stock 111 HP is improved by 3 HP and torque by 7 lbs


Also on stock engines exhaust and intake do nothing to increase performance. As for the exhaust, the best power numbers come from the stock exhaust, no one beats it period. Lloyd Greer of Lloydz performance states this and dyno charts on Fuel Motto's website show the same thing. The air intake on the stock bikes is pretty optimized. You might see 2 to 4 HP on the top end at 5400 RPM, so if you drag race wide open it makes a difference.

To increase "real" performance on a 111/116, you need cams and bore. Intake and exhaust are optimized by ":real" engineering teams that use flow modeling and measurements. Most aftermarket exhaust guys simply a great craftsman's that make pretty nice sounding pipes.

The "factory lean" tune is a little bit of internet mis-information. Yes it is true especially on water cooled bikes the tunes are indeed lean. On the 111/116 bikes the AF ratio is set to 14.7.1 on closed loop mode which is around idle to 3500 rpm and light to moderate loads, this is a lean mixture, but at higher power settings the AF ratios are too lean robbing power. Also the ignition timing profiles are too advanced at low poer settings and too retarded at high power settings.

Also keep in mind the aftermarket tunes from Fuel Motto, Dynojet and craigB don't increase torque or HP much at all. But rideability and response is improved. On a stock 111 HP is improved by 3 HP and torque by 7 lbs


Also on stock engines exhaust and intake do nothing to increase performance. As for the exhaust, the best power numbers come from the stock exhaust, no one beats it period. Lloyd Greer of Lloydz performance states this and dyno charts on Fuel Motto's website show the same thing. The air intake on the stock bikes is pretty optimized. You might see 2 to 4 HP on the top end at 5400 RPM, so if you drag race wide open it makes a difference.

To increase "real" performance on a 111/116, you need cams and bore. Intake and exhaust are optimized by ":real" engineering teams that use flow modeling and measurements. Most aftermarket exhaust guys simply a great craftsman's that make pretty nice sounding pipes.

 

[Walt]

Baron, in reading your #14 post, it looks like you are saying the AF ratio is lean all the way from idle to max rpm. Is that what you meant to say?

 

[mikeroark]

Well, interesting thread. Having done intake, header, and exhaust I installed the PV3. Since there was no stock tune for my configuration with my checksum, I checked with the DynoJet and they resolved the problem. They are extremely helpful and it cost me nothing. Throttle response and performance have increased, crotch heat is gone and the front tire comes up between 1st to 2nd.

 

[Max Kool]

and the front tire comes up between 1st to 2nd.

When you misshift and accidentally hit neutral? 😬