[Legman37]

I've been considering a cam upgrade (Andrews 420) to my 2018 Scout Bobber. I stopped into the dealership today to inquire about getting a quote on that work. They advised that if it's not an OEM part being installed in the engine they would not do the work. I was advised that non-OEM parts could be installed anywhere outside of the engine w/o compromising the mechanical integrity of the bike but not w/in the engine. Has anyone installed high performance cams on their Scout Bobber and if so to what effect? Have you had any mechanical issues thereafter.
The mechanic I spoke w/ also has a shop of his own and does custom work out of his shop so I trust his opinion. He doesn't seem to be a die-hard Indian enthusiast so I am don't see any reason why he might strongly discourage me from making that upgrade aside from offering his sincere opinion. BTW, I've already upgraded nearly everything else outside of the engine from the bars back to the rear rotor and caliper. The cams were the only thing left to upgrade.

 

[Greg Abell]

mark.lb did a Scout build: mark.lb - 2021 Scout Bobber Build | Indian Motorcycle Forum (indianmotorcycles.net)

 

[K9F]

You have no warranty left, find another shop. Why is it you just want to do the cam upgrade on it's own, is this just a 'talking point' for meets or do you find the engine lacking? I am in a similar position to yourself with regards to mods but certainly don't feel the need for the cams on their own with the tune I'm running. I'm waiting until mine wears out (if it ever does) and simply do something similar to Mark.lb and go BIG bore!

 

[Legman37]

Like a lot of riders, I just want to see how much performance I can get out of the bike with compromising the mechanical integrity or life of the engine. Aside from that I can afford to find out as well so why not consider it. BTW, do consider that every modification that any person does to any bike is purely discretionary. Every bike comes from the factory 100% functional, no mods required. So I’m not sure that any reason for a mod whether it be for performance or aesthetics is any better that anyone else’s reason to do a mod.
The essence of my question is whether or not anyone has regretted completing that cam “upgrade”. According to the dealership mechanic, he’s known of instances 1st-hand where a cam upgrade or a big bore kit threw the tuning off on a bike to the point where the performance actual decreased either by way of lost horsepower/torque or starting/running reliability. Says he known of instances where as a result of completing an engine modification mechanics have actually “grenaded‘ an engine, whatever that means. His concern basically seemed to be with using non-OEM parts within the engine specifically. I’m simply trying to qualify what that mechanic said compared to other people’s experience. Just trying to do a little research in the efforts of protecting my investment and enjoyment. If I can reliably get the results I hoping for, then I would pursue that upgrade. However, as with all the upgrades I done to my bike myself, very few of them are as easy as 1, 2, 3 and no matter what the manufacturer claims, no parts are “universal”. I just what to assess how much of a gamble I would be taking. I don’t want to spend $2500 on a cam upgrade only to spend another $1800 trying to get it undone. Also, I found out the mechanic I was going to use for the upgrade is shit. I was told h’s ruined a few bikes trying to do engine modifications.
I remember when that same mechanic told me that I couldn’t run a 180 tire on the back of my bike without some modification. I thought he was wrong. All other accounts I came across online said that I could. I slapped a 180 (w/ white wall) on my Scout Bobber and ruined the white wall w/in the first ride. Perfectly brand new tire ruined! Seems everyone else was running their 180 tire on the OEM wheel which is not recommended because the narrowness of the wheel changes the shape of the tire effecting the performance of the tire and the bike‘s ride. I put my 180 on the recommended sized wheel (5.5) which gave the tire proper fitment, retaining the tire’s designed width. That was what that mechanic was warning about. Could I run a 180 on the rear… yes. Could I run a 180 on the rear w/o compromising the performance, no or not unless I modified the rear subframe which is what I ended up doing. Point is, just because a part is manufactured or a mod can be done doesn’t necessarily mean that it should or that it’s even safe. No one wants a mechanical failure at 90 mph or white going into a curve. It’s all about safety first then performance. BTW I do recognize that the skillset of a mechanic has a lot to do w/ the outcome of a modification. I do think it’s reasonable that some performance mods will actually void the warrant.

You have no warranty left, find another shop. Why is it you just want to do the cam upgrade on it's own, is this just a 'talking point' for meets or do you find the engine lacking? I am in a similar position to yourself with regards to mods but certainly don't feel the need for the cams on their own with the tune I'm running. I'm waiting until mine wears out (if it ever does) and simply do something similar to Mark.lb and go BIG bore!

 

[K9F]

Hi Legman37,

Mark.lb's big bore project was captivating, interesting and revealing. Have a thorough read of it. This is in no way a criticism or slight towards you Mark my friend but the end results were for me personally a slight disappointment with regards to the figures for the money spent. That is why I have decided to wait until mine needs repairs and if it needs a tear down that will be the time to go big bore and cams as the tear down would be necessary expenditure anyway. Hope that makes sense.

 

[Legman37]

Hi Legman37,

Mark.lb's big bore project was captivating, interesting and revealing. Have a thorough read of it. This is in no way a criticism or slight towards you Mark my friend but the end results were for me personally a slight disappointment with regards to the figures for the money spent. That is why I have decided to wait until mine needs repairs and if it needs a tear down that will be the time to go big bore and cams as the tear down would be necessary expenditure anyway. Hope that makes sense.

I just finished reading it from end-to-end! Absolutely captivating! Thanks for recommending it. Much appreciated! I reached out to Mark to see how if any affects that engine upgrade had on the mechanical integrity of his bike in the long-term. I’m suspecting that the skill-set of the mechanic is likely one of the most significant factor in the outcome of such an upgrade.

 

[Charlie Chaplain]

I've been considering a cam upgrade (Andrews 420) to my 2018 Scout Bobber. I stopped into the dealership today to inquire about getting a quote on that work. They advised that if it's not an OEM part being installed in the engine they would not do the work. I was advised that non-OEM parts could be installed anywhere outside of the engine w/o compromising the mechanical integrity of the bike but not w/in the engine. Has anyone installed high performance cams on their Scout Bobber and if so to what effect? Have you had any mechanical issues thereafter.
The mechanic I spoke w/ also has a shop of his own and does custom work out of his shop so I trust his opinion. He doesn't seem to be a die-hard Indian enthusiast so I am don't see any reason why he might strongly discourage me from making that upgrade aside from offering his sincere opinion. BTW, I've already upgraded nearly everything else outside of the engine from the bars back to the rear rotor and caliper. The cams were the only thing left to upgrade.

Have you used a Dynojet PV3 to tune the bike for more performance? You stated that you have upgraded everything else external, does this mean that you have a performance intake, and aftermarket performance exhaust installed also? If not, I recommend some good slip on performance mufflers, or full performance exhaust, and a S&S or MaxFlow Zipper intake. Then, if you haven’t got a PV3, buy it from FuelMoto, and they will give you a tune file to flash your ECU with. If, you have already done all this, disregard the above, lol.
Charlie

 

[K9F]

You're very welcome Legman37. To add to Charlie's input above I have had my Scout tuned by my dealership and have custom headers and exhaust and a Trask performance filter this combined gave me a near 20BHP uplift at the rear wheel.
Mark's build as far as I can determine from This Side of the Pond was carried out by a very knowledgeable and capable outfit. Could you not reach out to them to get their spin on it or maybe even use their capable services?

 

[Legman37]

Have you used a Dynojet PV3 to tune the bike for more performance? You stated that you have upgraded everything else external, does this mean that you have a performance intake, and aftermarket performance exhaust installed also? If not, I recommend some good slip on performance mufflers, or full performance exhaust, and a S&S or MaxFlow Zipper intake. Then, if you haven’t got a PV3, buy it from FuelMoto, and they will give you a tune file to flash your ECU with. If, you have already done all this, disregard the above, lol.
Charlie

So I’ve got the Hacker Mayhem 2-in-1 exhaust, high performance air intake upgrade. I forget the manufacture. I’ve also got the Dynojet PV3 install. I’m very happy w/ all the result of those mods.

 

[Legman37]

You're very welcome Legman37. To add to Charlie's input above I have had my Scout tuned by my dealership and have custom headers and exhaust and a Trask performance filter this combined gave me a near 20BHP uplift at the rear wheel.
Mark's build as far as I can determine from This Side of the Pond was carried out by a very knowledgeable and capable outfit. Could you not reach out to them to get their spin on it or maybe even use their capable services?

Great suggestion! I’m going to do exactly that.

 

[mark.lb]

Like a lot of riders, I just want to see how much performance I can get out of the bike with compromising the mechanical integrity or life of the engine. Aside from that I can afford to find out as well so why not consider it. BTW, do consider that every modification that any person does to any bike is purely discretionary. Every bike comes from the factory 100% functional, no mods required. So I’m not sure that any reason for a mod whether it be for performance or aesthetics is any better that anyone else’s reason to do a mod.
The essence of my question is whether or not anyone has regretted completing that cam “upgrade”. According to the dealership mechanic, he’s known of instances 1st-hand where a cam upgrade or a big bore kit threw the tuning off on a bike to the point where the performance actual decreased either by way of lost horsepower/torque or starting/running reliability. Says he known of instances where as a result of completing an engine modification mechanics have actually “grenaded‘ an engine, whatever that means. His concern basically seemed to be with using non-OEM parts within the engine specifically. I’m simply trying to qualify what that mechanic said compared to other people’s experience. Just trying to do a little research in the efforts of protecting my investment and enjoyment. If I can reliably get the results I hoping for, then I would pursue that upgrade. However, as with all the upgrades I done to my bike myself, very few of them are as easy as 1, 2, 3 and no matter what the manufacturer claims, no parts are “universal”. I just what to assess how much of a gamble I would be taking. I don’t want to spend $2500 on a cam upgrade only to spend another $1800 trying to get it undone. Also, I found out the mechanic I was going to use for the upgrade is shit. I was told h’s ruined a few bikes trying to do engine modifications.
I remember when that same mechanic told me that I couldn’t run a 180 tire on the back of my bike without some modification. I thought he was wrong. All other accounts I came across online said that I could. I slapped a 180 (w/ white wall) on my Scout Bobber and ruined the white wall w/in the first ride. Perfectly brand new tire ruined! Seems everyone else was running their 180 tire on the OEM wheel which is not recommended because the narrowness of the wheel changes the shape of the tire effecting the performance of the tire and the bike‘s ride. I put my 180 on the recommended sized wheel (5.5) which gave the tire proper fitment, retaining the tire’s designed width. That was what that mechanic was warning about. Could I run a 180 on the rear… yes. Could I run a 180 on the rear w/o compromising the performance, no or not unless I modified the rear subframe which is what I ended up doing. Point is, just because a part is manufactured or a mod can be done doesn’t necessarily mean that it should or that it’s even safe. No one wants a mechanical failure at 90 mph or white going into a curve. It’s all about safety first then performance. BTW I do recognize that the skillset of a mechanic has a lot to do w/ the outcome of a modification. I do think it’s reasonable that some performance mods will actually void the warrant.

I have been running a Michelin Commander II (180/65-B16) on my Scout stock rear wheel for 4,000 miles now. I have had no rubs or issues whatsoever. A tire with a higher aspect ratio might give you a problem. Do you remember exactly what you installed?

 

[mark.lb]

Hi Legman37,

Mark.lb's big bore project was captivating, interesting and revealing. Have a thorough read of it. This is in no way a criticism or slight towards you Mark my friend but the end results were for me personally a slight disappointment with regards to the figures for the money spent. That is why I have decided to wait until mine needs repairs and if it needs a tear down that will be the time to go big bore and cams as the tear down would be necessary expenditure anyway. Hope that makes sense.

I recently spoke to my friend Paul who owns the dynamometer I ran my Scout on - June 25, 2022. He had the dynamometer drum “recoated” and the system recalibrated and certified by Dynojet. The day we did my Scout pulls the surface of the drum was very smooth and there was significant rear tire slippage on the drum. It was also over 100*F in his shop. (It is not air conditioned.) He promised me another set of pulls this spring - gratis. I’ll try to get it up there sometime in April or May for another go!
Even under poor conditions this summer- I’ll take 110hp - 90ft/lbs.

 

[IndianDR]

Since the 420s don’t need springs it could be done relatively quickly. I’m doing a BBK with 450s right now. Should be a handful. I’ve done quite a few of the scout big bores. They’re a blast.

 

[K9F]

Since the 420s don’t need springs it could be done relatively quickly. I’m doing a BBK with 450s right now. Should be a handful. I’ve done quite a few of the scout big bores. They’re a blast.

I think I read somewhere that there's a trade-off with the 450's lower down over the 420's but may be wrong? Could you explain the difference in layman's terms please between the two sets of cams?

 

[mark.lb]

Since the 420s don’t need springs it could be done relatively quickly. I’m doing a BBK with 450s right now. Should be a handful. I’ve done quite a few of the scout big bores. They’re a blast.

There are definitely some Scouts running BBK kits out there. I know of one other built by the shop that did mine but with no cams. They were not available yet. There are very few builds documented on the internet. It is hard to get solid information or advise. (The tricks of the trade to make it all work.) We ultimately went with 420 cams because I wanted a reliable, usable street bike. The source I consulted asked, “Do you intended to drag race the bike?” I said no. He recommended the 420 cams as a better purely street option.

 

[mark.lb]

Since the 420s don’t need springs it could be done relatively quickly. I’m doing a BBK with 450s right now. Should be a handful. I’ve done quite a few of the scout big bores. They’re a blast.

Guy like you (experienced, skilled mechanics) are hard to find. Not ever bike shop or dealership has one. I lot of people think they are going to slap a BBK and cams on a bike in a couple of hours and it will fire right up. (Wrong!)
Very few Indian technicians have completely torn down a stock Scout engine and then rebuilt it. Very few have replaced the valves in Scout heads. Very few have replaced cylinders and pistons in a Scout. Very few are able to get the engine running with the proper timing after a complete rebuild. Very few are able to build a custom ECU tune or dynamometer tune after the engine has been heavily modified. (All the engine parts in the world are worthless if the bike runs poorly when you are finished.) It is also very easy for something to break or go wrong in the engine building process.
My BBK Scout build was an expensive and time consuming project. We learned a lot along they way. I’m sure you have a vast bank of knowledge as well. Fortunately my project was a success. I have a very usable well behaved 1300cc Scout. BUT - It gets very angry when you open the throttle. Every time I ride Plain Jane someone asks, “What did you do to that thing?”

 

[IndianDR]

Guy like you (experienced, skilled mechanics) are hard to find. Not ever bike shop or dealership has one. I lot of people think they are going to slap a BBK and cams on a bike in a couple of hours and it will fire right up. (Wrong!)
Very few Indian technicians have completely torn down a stock Scout engine and then rebuilt it. Very few have replaced the valves in Scout heads. Very few have replaced cylinders and pistons in a Scout. Very few are able to get the engine running with the proper timing after a complete rebuild. Very few are able to build a custom ECU tune or dynamometer tune after the engine has been heavily modified. (All the engine parts in the world are worthless if the bike runs poorly when you are finished.) It is also very easy for something to break or go wrong in the engine building process.
My BBK Scout build was an expensive and time consuming project. We learned a lot along they way. I’m sure you have a vast bank of knowledge as well. Fortunately my project was a success. I have a very usable well behaved 1300cc Scout. BUT - It gets very angry when you open the throttle. Every time I ride Plain Jane someone asks, “What did you do to that thing?”

The timing issue is actually depending on what manual you’re using. It used to say back crank up to install rear cams. I found this issue and with the help of one of the main guys at Indian and it was changed in the service manual.
If you’re using stock cams on the BBK If can be doing quickly if you have cylinders purchased from their core program. The longest progress is filing rings to your desired gap.

 

[IndianDR]

I think I read somewhere that there's a trade-off with the 450's lower down over the 420's but may be wrong? Could you explain the difference in layman's terms please between the two sets of cams?

The 450s require valve springs. These springs can be tricky since they’re sunk into the head.

 

[IndianOz]

Hi, I see this is an old thread but I've just had Andrews cams installed in my Scout along with a performance air intake, Freedom radical Radius Exhaust power commander and dina Tune. Suspension is next. It's a thrill to ride, cheers