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Heading into stage 2 for 18' Chieftain dark horse, any input on what brand of cams work well with the 111, besides the Indian cams?
Thanks..
 

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you better be able to handle a little teasing on here Chief, some of us can dish it out pretty good.
It all depends on what you want out of your bike and how much money youre willing to part with to get there
Some of us love our 585 cams with all the trimmings but cams are kinda personal.Do some digging and talk to some folks
that have the cams you are thinking about. Lastly do everything at once cams, tuner, intake and exhaust. Its not cheap
but after youre done you will swear its not the same bike. Just my 2cents.
 

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My standard disclaimer.... I only know enough to be dangerous.

Indian and Lloyds seem to be the most popular, or most widely chosen. I've been considering a Lloyds 558 for my '15 Vintage, or possibly/maybe a 585. I try to keep up with the various cam threads on the site here, and often walk away more confused than I am already :rolleyes: As I suggested, you might wanna do a search and read up on the different choices, as there are pros & cons to all of the different cams.
 

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Cam choice is dependent on what you want. Indian has the stage 2 cams and that comes with a factory flash. Other than that one of the best choices are the cams from Lloyds. He has the 558 and 585 cams. Using the Lloyds cams will involve getting either a Power Commander PC5 or the later PVCX (there is a newer version of this but the name of it eludes me currently). I would most certainly recommend the later programmer since it does much more than the PC5 does. If you go the Power Commander route then get it from FuelMoto. They have great support and maps to go along with most configurations. You can then also go thru them to get some custom fine tuning by CraigB1960. The stage 2 Indian cams give you a nice lopey idle and much better top end that the original cams. The Lloyds 558 is comparable to Indian Stage 2 but gives better power and torque across the board. The 585s are better yet for overall power but can cause some valve train noise that some find intolerable, some don't notice it. There are some experimenting with using the Stage 3 cams by without doing the full Stage 3 kit and having good experiences with that. Try the seach engine and you will find many threads here that discuss the different cam options. Dean
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Cam choice is dependent on what you want. Indian has the stage 2 cams and that comes with a factory flash. Other than that one of the best choices are the cams from Lloyds. He has the 558 and 585 cams. Using the Lloyds cams will involve getting either a Power Commander PC5 or the later PVCX (there is a newer version of this but the name of it eludes me currently). I would most certainly recommend the later programmer since it does much more than the PC5 does. If you go the Power Commander route then get it from FuelMoto. They have great support and maps to go along with most configurations. You can then also go thru them to get some custom fine tuning by CraigB1960. The stage 2 Indian cams give you a nice lopey idle and much better top end that the original cams. The Lloyds 558 is comparable to Indian Stage 2 but gives better power and torque across the board. The 585s are better yet for overall power but can cause some valve train noise that some find intolerable, some don't notice it. There are some experimenting with using the Stage 3 cams by without doing the full Stage 3 kit and having good experiences with that. Try the seach engine and you will find many threads here that discuss the different cam options. Dean
Thank you Dean, I already have a true duals, arlen-ness intake, and the PV-3 (newest version), I've been informed by others about Lloydz, what I'm looking for is the best set-up for the bike. After talking with a representative from Lloydz, she said all I'd need is the 585 cams, then concluded that I get it Dyno-tuned, which I have no idea who does that. The Indian dealership here does not. (Albuquerque)
So, what have you done with your bike?
The 585 cams seem powerful but also complicated in the sense of needing more parts for the engine to run good. Nothing sucks more than a bike that doesn't run right! That's what I'd like to avoid while putting parts into improving the performance.
Please share your experience, thank you!
 

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My standard disclaimer.... I only know enough to be dangerous.

Indian and Lloyds seem to be the most popular, or most widely chosen. I've been considering a Lloyds 558 for my '15 Vintage, or possibly/maybe a 585. I try to keep up with the various cam threads on the site here, and often walk away more confused than I am already :rolleyes: As I suggested, you might wanna do a search and read up on the different choices, as there are pros & cons to all of the different cams.
Besides possibly money, why have you possibly chose Lloydz cams?
And what is holding you up about deciding between the 558 or the 585 cams?
Thank you for your reply!
 

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My standard disclaimer.... I only know enough to be dangerous.

Indian and Lloyds seem to be the most popular, or most widely chosen. I've been considering a Lloyds 558 for my '15 Vintage, or possibly/maybe a 585. I try to keep up with the various cam threads on the site here, and often walk away more confused than I am already :rolleyes: As I suggested, you might wanna do a search and read up on the different choices, as there are pros & cons to all of the different cams.
you better be able to handle a little teasing on here Chief, some of us can dish it out pretty good.
It all depends on what you want out of your bike and how much money youre willing to part with to get there
Some of us love our 585 cams with all the trimmings but cams are kinda personal.Do some digging and talk to some folks
that have the cams you are thinking about. Lastly do everything at once cams, tuner, intake and exhaust. Its not cheap
but after youre done you will swear its not the same bike. Just my 2cents.
No worries, I like jokes, it sucks being mechanically challenged and have to trust store Reps, that's frustrating and learning as I go, I don't want the wrong set up, it's to costly!
Anyway, what have you done with bike and why?
Thank you for your reply...
 

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Besides possibly money, why have you possibly chose Lloydz cams?
And what is holding you up about deciding between the 558 or the 585 cams?
Thank you for your reply!
See Dean's post no. 6. His post hits on a few of my reasons for leaning towards the Lloyds 558 as opposed to the 585. From what I've read and as I under stand it (and IF I understand correctly), the 558 provides additional low to mid range tq., and likely a bit more in the upper RPM range than the stock 111 cams as well. Dynojet or FuelMoto, and guru site member CraigB has come up with very good tunes for the 558, that according to members here that have the 558s.

My bike is a 2015 Vintage. One of my concerns with the 2015 111 with the 585 upgrade is the valve springs. I've read some posts that mention valve float due to less than adequate valve spring pressure. The 2015 also has the wimpy (er) rods, which were upgraded in 2018 or 2019, I'm not sure which year the rod upgrade took place. In a nut shell, I just don't know if a 2015 111ci has the right internals to handle much more power than stock, simple as that. I'd like more "oomph" but also want to keep reliability and longevity.

My Know enough to be dangerous side LOL .... I have no experience at all hot rodding a 111. But I have been involved in a couple of V8 (Chevy) boat engine builds for my boat. And have been somewhat schooled by a couple of very knowlegable engine builders whose living is made by making I/O boats go fast. Neither of them would cam an engine without matching valve springs to the cam, and both would recommend head & valve work, at minimum. And of course there's compression, induction, and exhaust to throw into the mix. My builds included boring and stroking too, but that doesn't have anything to do with it if/when leaving the 111, a 111.

So there ya have it. No doubt there will be those who don't agree with my thoughts and that's ok. I hope they speak up because if they do, that means I might learn a thing, or 5, or 10 :)
 

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Heading into stage 2 for 18' Chieftain dark horse, any input on what brand of cams work well with the 111, besides the Indian cams?
Thanks..
Welcome, as far as cams go I think anyone looking to add any stage 2 (cams) in general is what kind of riding and performance characteristics are you looking to gain? And possibly what performance characteristics are you willing to sacrifice? Most motorcycle cams have a particular sweet spot. It might be a low end torque/cruiser, a high end/horsepower or something maybe an in between type grind cam. Indian stage 2 & 3, Lloydz 558 & 585 and maybe some Andrews/Woods type cams are pretty much the only cams I know of for our 111 motors. Indian and Lloydz are the general go to cams at the moment. Many here are very happy with either one. As far as performance I have only ridden Indian stage 2 cam (2 different bikes) & my Lloydz 585 in 111 Chieftains. I'm not going to comment on the 116 with stage 3 cams inside because that's a different combo altogether. To me the straight Indian stage 2 cam is OK and slightly better than stock, but there seemed to be a slight loss of the initial low end torque around the 1600-2200 rpm range then came on from 2500 thru 3600/3800rpm or so then not so much. Maybe it was the tuning, not sure. It felt like a good cruiser type cam. As far as my 111/585 combo it really feels torquey and the HP definitely hits in the 3500-4500+ range (I rarely hold it at or above 5k rpm for long). It's more of HP type cam IMO. It's a lot of fun to ride. But to me it's not as tame and benign & cruise-able as it was with the stock Indian cams it had which is great, but I personally think it's more of around town or a town to town bike now, but also less of a state to state cross country touring combo which can be seen as a slight negative, if that makes any sense. However Lloyd himself rode his super charged 121 stroked Chieftain from San Diego to Daytona recently, go figure.

So I guess it comes down to what kind of riding will you really be doing and what kind of gain are you looking for? If I were in the market to add cams again I'd consider Indian stage 3 cams (cams alone) or either Lloydz 558 or 585s.
 

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I went for 558 cams. They add a bunch of extra get up and go, but the thing that I like the most is that they make the motor happier to rev past about 3,500 rpm. It used to be sluggish getting into the upper rev range, now it just does it without fuss.

Imagine a teenager who gets out of bed, gets dressed, has breakfast, and goes to school, and all without that 15 year old opositional stuff going on. :)
 

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Check with @RACNRAY
He has experimented with most of the cams out there. The Lloyd 585 was a little noisy in the valve train department. I believe he liked the 558 better. Right now, he is experimenting with the Stage 3 cam and getting excellent results in his 111. If you have the tuner, you will probably need to have @CraigB1960 dial the tune in for you. It will turn your cat into a tiger! Anyway... Welcome to the Tribe from South Florida. I have An Indian Stage 2 cam, True Duals, Stage 1 Indian round A/C, and Rinehart slipons. I still lack the tuner because I'm on a budget, but that is the next step in my Indian Motorcycle evolution.
 

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Full agreement with much of the above input. I also have the 585's on my 16' Vintage....24K miles total (@ 10K with cams), FM PVCX fine tuned by @CraigB1960 and am very happy. Even if it were my touring bike, it will cruise 70-75 mph @ 3,000 rpms. Once you allow the rpm's to climb over that per @Axxehead , she really 'turns on'. I rarely go over 4300 rpms. I'm not a true dual guy and left the cat in...still love the cam lope and sound with the Rineharts and stage 1 intake.- John
 

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I got the Indian stage 2 cams when they first came out. Two up riding on the RM I felt like I needed a bit more top end to get around tractor trailers better. I have the V and H turn downs and the Fuel Moto Jackpot header. I am using the Lloyds big oval air cleaner. I will say the factory stage 2 flash that was installed on my bike was horrible. Caused a lot of engine noises (ignition timing) and made the bike skiddish in throttle response. I did the Dobeck programmer and that helped the throttle and top end power but still very noisy. Others were commenting at the time about the experiences with the PVCX and maps from FuelMoto and I decided to give that a try. That made a big difference. Then I got with CraigB1960 and he helped fine tune my bike and got it perfect. I still have a bit of engine noise from 2600 to 2900 but I have had that for some time and contribute it to piston noises. (Even changing out the cam chain tensioner did not change that.)

The Lloyds 558 cams it seems are the best all around cam you could stick in the 111 at least for the RMs. I had a buddy go the 585s on his Springfield and loved the power but the valvetrain noise drove him nuts. I heard it myself and was very surprised how noisy it made his engine. His was a 2017 model. If I had to do cams again it would be the 558s or maybe the stage 3 cams since RACNRAY is having very good luck with them. He has shown the profile of that cam is close to the 585s but the ramp profile is more gradual and greatly reduces the valvetrain noise. That all being said I am still happy with the stage 2 factory cams. Great lopey idle and plenty of power for my RM. Greatly improved top end for passing power. CraigB1960 got my throttle response exactly like I wanted it, I now have a fast idle on start up that lets the engine warm up quicker and mileage his holding at about 40-45 MPG. Dean
 

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See Dean's post no. 6. His post hits on a few of my reasons for leaning towards the Lloyds 558 as opposed to the 585. From what I've read and as I under stand it (and IF I understand correctly), the 558 provides additional low to mid range tq., and likely a bit more in the upper RPM range than the stock 111 cams as well. Dynojet or FuelMoto, and guru site member CraigB has come up with very good tunes for the 558, that according to members here that have the 558s.

My bike is a 2015 Vintage. One of my concerns with the 2015 111 with the 585 upgrade is the valve springs. I've read some posts that mention valve float due to less than adequate valve spring pressure. The 2015 also has the wimpy (er) rods, which were upgraded in 2018 or 2019, I'm not sure which year the rod upgrade took place. In a nut shell, I just don't know if a 2015 111ci has the right internals to handle much more power than stock, simple as that. I'd like more "oomph" but also want to keep reliability and longevity.

My Know enough to be dangerous side LOL .... I have no experience at all hot rodding a 111. But I have been involved in a couple of V8 (Chevy) boat engine builds for my boat. And have been somewhat schooled by a couple of very knowlegable engine builders whose living is made by making I/O boats go fast. Neither of them would cam an engine without matching valve springs to the cam, and both would recommend head & valve work, at minimum. And of course there's compression, induction, and exhaust to throw into the mix. My builds included boring and stroking too, but that doesn't have anything to do with it if/when leaving the 111, a 111.

So there ya have it. No doubt there will be those who don't agree with my thoughts and that's ok. I hope they speak up because if they do, that means I might learn a thing, or 5, or 10 :)
I dont believe rods were upgraded in 18-19. heavier springs and 60 mm tb or intake manifold, but not rods. look at the 2 big bore kits that are offered to get a sense of what has changed.
 
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