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I am sure I will open up a can of worms here but some of this made sense to me. I am always a big supporter of synthetic oils. I only used Amsoil 20w-50 in my Vulcan 2000 and Amsoil in my Duramax. In my opinion I don't think you can find better. I have heard from a few people that have tried full synthetics in the Indian and mentioned that it seamed to run a little hotter than when the 20w-40 syn blend was used. Look at the video below


There is no doubt that synthetics hold up much better to heat but I never thought about a just air cooled bike with a factory oil cooler. Aircraft turbine oils are designed to act as a coolant just as much as lubricant (and no I am not recommending everyone start using turbine oil in their bikes!). Here they talk about the oil attracting heat and pulling it away from the cylinders just like freon would absorb the energy (heat) out of the air. A synthetic blend would absorb heat better (per the video) and give you some of the advantages of being partially synthetic also. I agree with most that there is no difference between the Victory and Indian oils, they just come in different packages.

If I had some free time I would love to see a simple experiment performed. Take a quart of Victory/Indian synthetic blend oil and a quart of full synthetic oil. Put them in separate cooking pans with the same heat source. Compare the temperature rise in each over time and see if the blended oil rises in temp quicker that the full synthetic. This would validate the video and give us all something to think about. If true we can then argue if it is better to have an oil that deals with the high temp better or one that transfers the heat away from the engine. I can't wait to see the responses :) Dean E
 

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In my performance cars I use the oil that the manufacturer specifies and I will do the same with my Scout. :D
 
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I have seen lots of threads about oil and the preferences and opinions vary wildly.

I think one should keep in mind that it's not just engine oil, it's also gear lube for the trans and wet clutch, emphasis on wet clutch.

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Wow! Back in the 1970's there was around 30 synthetic oil companies.
The FAA give the a OK to use Mobil 1 to be used in the turbo piston prop engines in which the oil can be changed twice as long as the normal oil change intervals.
Ford and GM showed test results that by using Mobil 1 after 250,000 miles parts in the motors, like camshaft lobes, crank bearings and so forth, were STILL with in factory specifications. So that puts it with in new engine? Just think on this for a moment.
And in just in case your to young to remember GM was finding new ways to mix cast iron and other materials like aluminum in the making of there camshafts.
Then there is the Government and other big construction equipment companies that needed oil to hold up to extremely low temperatures, while others were freezing up it was Mobil 1 that came though.
And no I'm not a salesman for Mobil 1.
 

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I would think that if we need to come here to determine what type of oils to use, we probably don't have enough expertise to make a qualified determination. For those of us who question the use of oils, and do not have technical background, the best answer is to stick with the manufacturers recommendations instead of relying on any of us on the internet to give answers.
I'm not saying that there are none here that are, or are not qualified. I'm suggesting that we really don't know if the person giving advise IS qualified. We can only assume they might, and assume they are telling us the truth as an expert.
If I have to bet or guess on what oil to use, I have to use my own expertise, or go with the manufacturer's recommendations. It is just the most concrete answer to the oil question IMHO.
 

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Depends more on what is in the motor and gearbox to begin with pretty general rule of thumb synthetic or blend to natural ok but shorter change intervals. Regular oil from the start better to stick with conventional. The reasoning is deposits build quickly and synthetics will remove them possibly resulting in scoring down the road.
 

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I would think that if we need to come here to determine what type of oils to use, we probably don't have enough expertise to make a qualified determination. For those of us who question the use of oils, and do not have technical background, the best answer is to stick with the manufacturers recommendations instead of relying on any of us on the internet to give answers.
I'm not saying that there are none here that are, or are not qualified. I'm suggesting that we really don't know if the person giving advise IS qualified. We can only assume they might, and assume they are telling us the truth as an expert.
If I have to bet or guess on what oil to use, I have to use my own expertise, or go with the manufacturer's recommendations. It is just the most concrete answer to the oil question IMHO.
You can not go wrong if you use what is recommended to use another brands is tricky while bike is under warranty
 

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Many years ago when synthetic oil was the new lube I wanted to use Mobil 1 in a turbo charged, intercooled Volvo. At the time there was possible issues with seals not interacting with the oil correctly and leaks could occur. I was advised to break in the engine on regular oil and then do a total change to the synthetic reasoning being that the engine would not wear the same with the synthetic. I followed this advice and ran synthetic until I sold the car. I noticed the car ran hotter with the synthetic. I had to have a repair done to a leaking injector seal and took the car in to Volvo. When I went to pick up the car the service guy said the service tech wanted to see me. First thought was "Oops, here we go". He asked what oil I was running and I said Mobil and what's the problem? He said that the lack of wear was obvious. He had not seen a car running a setup like mine have so little wear. The issue usually was oil breakdown due to running the turbo charger with a high boost setting. The heat killed oil.
Anyway, a thumbs up for synthetic. Don't be mislead by turbine engine use of synthetics because the turbine engine build clearance spec is much more precise than an Indian engine. Factor in the shear factor of lubes and heat characteristics and it is apples and oranges.
Okay, I know a long post but the bottom line, I was told not to run the synthetic in the 111. Too slippery. So, all the good reasons to run synthetic get thrown out.
Good news? The Scout runs full synthetic.
 
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For me it seems easier just to run what Indian / Polaris recommends. I just buy the oil change kit, pay the exorbitant price and figure I'm only doing this twice a year.
 
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Does the oil you use really matter that much? With the exception of clutch slippage from the use of incorrect oil when have you ever heard of an oil related failure (other than no oil in crankcase) due to the type of oil??? In our day and age with the composite materials used in engines and the lubricating quality of all oils I don't see much reason to concern oneself with oil. I've heard of many an engine running well over 100,000 miles and I'm sure many of those have been run with less than top of the line oils. As long as the oil doesn't have the 'friction modifiers' that are detrimental to a wet clutch you should be OK.
 

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For me it seems easier just to run what Indian / Polaris recommends. I just buy the oil change kit, pay the exorbitant price and figure I'm only doing this twice a year.
Indian kits are a little pricey but the peace of mind is worth the price where the warranty is concerned.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Many years ago when synthetic oil was the new lube I wanted to use Mobil 1 in a turbo charged, intercooled Volvo. At the time there was possible issues with seals not interacting with the oil correctly and leaks could occur. I was advised to break in the engine on regular oil and then do a total change to the synthetic reasoning being that the engine would not wear the same with the synthetic. I followed this advice and ran synthetic until I sold the car. I noticed the car ran hotter with the synthetic. I had to have a repair done to a leaking injector seal and took the car in to Volvo. When I went to pick up the car the service guy said the service tech wanted to see me. First thought was "Oops, here we go". He asked what oil I was running and I said Mobil and what's the problem? He said that the lack of wear was obvious. He had not seen a car running a setup like mine have so little wear. The issue usually was oil breakdown due to running the turbo charger with a high boost setting. The heat killed oil.
Anyway, a thumbs up for synthetic. Don't be mislead by turbine engine use of synthetics because the turbine engine build clearance spec is much more precise than an Indian engine. Factor in the shear factor of lubes and heat characteristics and it is apples and oranges.
Okay, I know a long post but the bottom line, I was told not to run the synthetic in the 111. Too slippery. So, all the good reasons to run synthetic get thrown out.
Good news? The Scout runs full synthetic.
On a turbo charged engine I agree 110%. I had a Eclipse turbo back in late 90s. Always ran Mobile 1 synthetic in it. Later sold it to my sister and the belt tensioner gave out a 120K. Took it to the shop and the techs were amazed that it still had the original turbo in it and still going strong. The same thing on my Duramax. Coking on the bearing from excessive heat build up kills the turbos. But is the resistence to this heat due to synthetics not absorbing the heat as readily?

The bigger question here is which oil transfers heat better? Many say there is no difference between dino oil, synthetic blend or full synthetic. A number of people on the forum state they feel more heat on the bike running full synthetic. I used to think that synthetic blends were a scam. You still have the disadvantages of regular oil with some synthetic added to it. But if (and yes I did make if bold on purpose) there is something to be said about regular oils transferring heat better than synthetics then a synthetic blend would make sense.

God only knows I don't want to start WW3 on the whole oil thing again! I just want to make some people think about it. Do I think the Indian oil is over priced? Sure. Do I think the synthetic blend may be the best choice for the way the TS 111 motor is cooled? Maybe. Polaris sure is a firm believer in the synthetic blend in their air cooled bikes. Maybe they are on to something or it is a scam and you should ignore everything I stated. They could make a full synthetic "premium" Indian oil and charge even more for it but they don't. In the end use whatever makes you sleep better at night. Dean E
 
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I would think that if we need to come here to determine what type of oils to use, we probably don't have enough expertise to make a qualified determination. For those of us who question the use of oils, and do not have technical background, the best answer is to stick with the manufacturers recommendations instead of relying on any of us on the internet to give answers.
I'm not saying that there are none here that are, or are not qualified. I'm suggesting that we really don't know if the person giving advise IS qualified. We can only assume they might, and assume they are telling us the truth as an expert.
If I have to bet or guess on what oil to use, I have to use my own expertise, or go with the manufacturer's recommendations. It is just the most concrete answer to the oil question IMHO.
Lots of interesting reading but this post should just stand in a sticky thread by itself
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I am an aerospace tech rep. I have no problems saying that I don't know. At times I see people pretty head strong on their opinions and I try to interject some questions to make them think a little. I find personal experiences can be worth their weight in gold. I find little on the internet that I truly trust, that is why my original statement showed an experiment to test the theory. My problem is now after buying the RM I am too cheap to spend the money on the test equipment just to validate the theory. Simply put, in the end I will still use the Indian oil for some time to come. Dean E
 
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The price of the Indian oil certainly is a b!tch. I think that is a big factor people look at when they buy it. That along with the pricey oil filters.
 

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I had the honor one time to be at the General Motors Tech center in Warren Michigan, and had a tour to the inside plant where they had a swimming pool size tub, for testing they're engines and running all the hydraulics through out the plant, I believe it was the Shell oil company that had oil that was 15 to 30 years of age standard oil petroleum that is, and it was tested and it was as good if not better from the day it was made,
Granted it was kept at more of a stable temperature, what they think was more of a contributed to the purity by using a quality filtering system.
 

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I've seen in owners manuals that if in a pinch and you need oil, just make sure it matches the specifications be it SAE, CC-4, CS or whatever they call for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Here is an article on VWs on which oil is better at heat transfering. Makes sense, maybe full synthetic is a better way to go. I know full synthetic motorcycle (notice I did not say car) oil works on wet clutches. My Kawi 2000 is proof of that. The original clutch is still going strong on hopped up 125 cid Vulcan with 68k on it. More to think about. Dean E

Synthetic Oil Explained - VW Parts and VW Tech from Aircooled.Net
 
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