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Lets start this discussion...what does everyone think is best value? Buy a new 2020 with the big bore kit already installed vs upgrading your current ride with it. Or is it still the best hp value going cams only even if you have to upgrade to Indian's new valve springs.

For me it is upgrading my current ride with the 116 kit. After all is said and done, to me it is worth the extra $$$ for the peace of mind of bigger connecting rods etc etc as I intend on keeping my current ride for a long time.

Fire away folks...
 

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With depreciation you’ll most likely lose more than $4K on your trade in which is about what it’ll cost you to buy a 116 kit and have it installed.
 

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depends on if you want a new bike or not... for the sake of argument in that you don't have to worry about finances and a new bike is not out of the equation... to me it is get the new bike and go stage II.. everything you have to do to the 111 to go stage III is already done with the stage II in 2020 PLUS new injectors to go with the redesigned heads... I just built a Roadmaster Dark Horse (red) put stage II, passenger floorboards, trunk arm rests... the bike came in at 32K... about the same as a non black 2019 Roadmaster 111...
 

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Lets start this discussion...what does everyone think is best value? Buy a new 2020 with the big bore kit already installed vs upgrading your current ride with it. Or is it still the best hp value going cams only even if you have to upgrade to Indian's new valve springs.

For me it is upgrading my current ride with the 116 kit. After all is said and done, to me it is worth the extra $$$ for the peace of mind of bigger connecting rods etc etc as I intend on keeping my current ride for a long time.

Fire away folks...

The 2020 116 is not the same as a BBK kit. The BBK kit has the cams and intake and exhaust (stage 3). The factory 2020 does not. It is just a stock engine with the bigger displacement. Indian sells a stage 1 and 2 kit for the stock 116.
 

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The 2020 116 is not the same as a BBK kit. The BBK kit has the cams and intake and exhaust (stage 3). The factory 2020 does not. It is just a stock engine with the bigger displacement. Indian sells a stage 1 and 2 kit for the stock 116.
true but lets go with apples to apples... the 2020 gets a free upgrade to Stage I in this comparison... as it is required for the BBK.. and there have been members here that went back to the smaller intake and had better results... cams I have no idea it they are the exact same as the 111 or different... they are not performance cams I'm pretty sure of that... the real question for the 2020 models... are you going to buy a model with the 116 or the 111?
 
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true but lets go with apples to apples... the 2020 gets a free upgrade to Stage I in this comparison... as it is required for the BBK.. and there have been members here that went back to the smaller intake and had better results... cams I have no idea it they are the exact same as the 111 or different... they are not performance cams I'm pretty sure of that... the real question for the 2020 models... are you going to buy a model with the 116 or the 111?

I don't see free stage 1 upgrades on the 2020 bikes. The 2020 bikes have the same intake and exhaust on the 116 as the 111.

And the stock 116 claim 126 ft lbs of torque vs the 119 on the 111.
 

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I have also heard that the "stock" 116 has ONLY the bigger displacement. The Stage 3 cams, bigger intake manifold and throttle body are "accessories". I wonder if the 116 CI engines have the boosted compression, or are they the same compression ratio as the 111 pistons. Because gasoline quality is not consistent everywhere, they may be making bigger displacement models that run the lower/safer compression ratio as the 111s.
As for the usual "required" better flowing, intake & exhaust systems that they tell us we must have with the Stage 3 kit, if the only change from the 111 is the addition of 5 cubic inches, then the new, bigger models will probably have the same air cleaner and pipes as the smaller Thunder Strokes.

In so far as the original question posed above, I've already voted with my wallet and my 116 cubic inch Roadmaster is running with the original intake manifold, throttle body and mufflers. The catholic converter has been gutted to reduce heat. And the only thing that the 2019/2020 models have that I wouldn't mind having is the navigation system. I've ridden a 2019 model and the ride modes are a gimmick that just re-maps the throttle action, without actually effecting power/performance.
 

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true but lets go with apples to apples... the 2020 gets a free upgrade to Stage I in this comparison... as it is required for the BBK.. and there have been members here that went back to the smaller intake and had better results... cams I have no idea it they are the exact same as the 111 or different... they are not performance cams I'm pretty sure of that... the real question for the 2020 models... are you going to buy a model with the 116 or the 111?
It's a good question and topic; could be six of one, half a dozen of the other. For instance, I'm inclined toward a Chieftain DH. If i went with a '19, say at a slightly reduced cost and did the BBK + labor, my guess is the price would be comparable to the 2020 CDH stock including TTL. So then the Q is whether the improved ride command is worth it over probably better torque and HP numbers with the BBK. I dunno, but I think I'd lean toward the 2020 since stage 2 will get you to the top now and you get the RC 2.0. A few bills more expensive at the end of the day, but as a "down the road" pursuit, may be worth it to me.

Of course, we haven't seen the Challenger yet, which might change a lot of thinking for everyone, depending on the price.
 

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It's a good question and topic; could be six of one, half a dozen of the other. For instance, I'm inclined toward a Chieftain DH. If i went with a '19, say at a slightly reduced cost and did the BBK + labor, my guess is the price would be comparable to the 2020 CDH stock including TTL. So then the Q is whether the improved ride command is worth it over probably better torque and HP numbers with the BBK. I dunno, but I think I'd lean toward the 2020 since stage 2 will get you to the top now and you get the RC 2.0. A few bills more expensive at the end of the day, but as a "down the road" pursuit, may be worth it to me.

Of course, we haven't seen the Challenger yet, which might change a lot of thinking for everyone, depending on the price.
If I were to upgrade I'd be waiting on the Power Plus motor.. not necessarily the Challenger... there is no way all that R&D only gets one model... but I'm really digging the Roadmaster Dark Horse in red... you add the stage II and passenger boards and arm rests your at the same price as a two tone Roadmaster without them... but back to the topic... depends on what your end game is... the 2020's have different heads and the stage II kits include new injectors.. so what will the "factory" 116 really be once it's built to the same level as the current 111's? so to me and back to my original post... if you were going to upgrade why would you not go with a 116 model? see were I'm going with this... see the models that don't have the 116... and we haven't even talked about the upcoming upgrade of variable timing...
 

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My 9,000 mile 2017 RM is probably worth about $8-$10k less than what I paid. Take the depreciation of a brand new bike, that gives me $13,000 of wampum to play with for upgrades on mine and I still ride down the road with a smile on my face.

Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk
 

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My 9,000 mile 2017 RM is probably worth about $8-$10k less than what I paid. Take the depreciation of a brand new bike, that gives me $13,000 of wampum to play with for upgrades on mine and I still ride down the road with a smile on my face.

Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk
true enough.... and it will be even truer in another 5 years...
 

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If I were to upgrade I'd be waiting on the Power Plus motor.. not necessarily the Challenger... there is no way all that R&D only gets one model... but I'm really digging the Roadmaster Dark Horse in red... you add the stage II and passenger boards and arm rests your at the same price as a two tone Roadmaster without them... but back to the topic... depends on what your end game is... the 2020's have different heads and the stage II kits include new injectors.. so what will the "factory" 116 really be once it's built to the same level as the current 111's? so to me and back to my original post... if you were going to upgrade why would you not go with a 116 model? see were I'm going with this... see the models that don't have the 116... and we haven't even talked about the upcoming upgrade of variable timing...
I agree; the PP 108 will eventually start to go in everything, including all the baggers, IMO. The 2021's will probably feature it in a line or two. But considering I almost bought a '19 CDH, not sure I have the patience to wait another year and a half.

As for your comments about the 111 vs. 116, I agree there as well. But this isn't an upgrade for me; I'm currently sans an Indian; just skulking about here to get a feel for what everyone thinks because I REALLY want one.
 

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I thought 2019 TS111 comes with the bigger 60mm manifold as std, the new stage 2 kit for the 2020 TS116 besides the new injectors has the larger 60mm throttle body included, I will be interested to see what Conrod’s are used in the 2020 TS116 engine, the new high flow heads fitted std to the 2020 TS116 are a bonus, if I were in the market for a new Indian I would wait till the 2020 model is released.
 

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I have a 2014 Indian Red Chieftain the first year would really like to keep it, so maybe a Lloyd'z IMC-558 cam or the 116ci BBK just to get the new improved rods might be in my future, The new 108 looks good to me also, though the only thing that would make me trade in a heartbeat without a second thought would be a inline 4
 

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I thought 2019 TS111 comes with the bigger 60mm manifold as std, the new stage 2 kit for the 2020 TS116 besides the new injectors has the larger 60mm throttle body included, I will be interested to see what Conrod’s are used in the 2020 TS116 engine, the new high flow heads fitted std to the 2020 TS116 are a bonus, if I were in the market for a new Indian I would wait till the 2020 model is released.
yeah I went and relooked at the BBK's... there are two of them... the new one when I looked yesterday I thought said fit my 2018 it had the new heads and injectors... I went back today and now it says it doesn't so I must have miss-read yesterday... that kit doesn't have the connecting rods and will fit only 2020 111's so the 2020 111's have the upgraded rods.. but what's weird is that they didn't get the improved heads standard..
 
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yeah I went and relooked at the BBK's... there are two of them... the new one when I looked yesterday I thought said fit my 2018 it had the new heads and injectors... I went back today and now it says it doesn't so I must have miss-read yesterday... that kit doesn't have the connecting rods and will fit only 2020 111's so the 2020 111's have the upgraded rods.. but what's weird is that they didn't get the improved heads standard..

That's because they want you to buy them as part of the upgrade
 

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oh I get that... the only thing I can figure is they're running out old stock... way to much of a hassle to have different heads as far as inventory and construction of the motor... but then again once the Power Plus comes out they are going to have 6 different motors...
 
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First, My 2017's w Lloydz stage 2 pkg are not going anywhere just yet. IF I were inclined to buy a 2020 I would definitely buy the 116 and build from there. But the current "Bigs" for 2020 are not where my interest is. I wanna see the new Challenger test the new engine. I love fixed fairing bikes. Demo truck in town next week hoping there are some 2020 Chieftains on the truck if so will ride the stock 116 and report back if I can sense any difference.
 
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