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Discussion Starter #1
Who ever has a bad running bike, that hasn't or doesn't want to remap their rides.
Try removing the IAT (intake air temp) sensor from intake box.
Keep it plugged in, but set it aside.
Plug the hole.

Report back here with results.
I think this sensors properties may be off and giving bad info until fully warmed up and stabilized..

I remember this being a factor on some cars from my mechanic days.
 

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Unless you have the "Digital Wrench" to check this sensor to see if it is outside of its values, you're just shooting in the dark. It's so early in the release of this Indian model and I would wait until Polaris/Indian sends out a tech bulletin or a new updated ECM flash to fix early drive-ability issues.
I'm not having any issues with my FTR 1200S that I received 6/27/2019.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Unless you have the "Digital Wrench" to check this sensor to see if it is outside of its values, you're just shooting in the dark. It's so early in the release of this Indian model and I would wait until Polaris/Indian sends out a tech bulletin or a new updated ECM flash to fix early drive-ability issues.
I'm not having any issues with my FTR 1200S that I received 6/27/2019.
So, your not one who should try it.
This is an experiment that will do no harm, and may help confirm the issues many of these early bikes have.
I may or may not have gotten this info from a high up source as something to try after filling out a very long questionnaire regarding my machine that has a common issue to others. This experiment may help them determine what the tech bulletin will be...

I also see a fluctuating read out of the IAT on the display of my PV3 untill warm.. which is not exactly abnormal, but still could be something..

As has been said, early adaptors, are beta testers that help perfect the new products.
This is part of that..
 

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So, your not one who should try it.
This is an experiment that will do no harm, and may help confirm the issues many of these early bikes have.
I may or may not have gotten this info from a high up source as something to try after filling out a very long questionnaire regarding my machine that has a common issue to others. This experiment may help them determine what the tech bulletin will be...

I also see a fluctuating read out of the IAT on the display of my PV3 untill warm.. which is not exactly abnormal, but still could be something..

As has been said, early adaptors, are beta testers that help perfect the new products.
This is part of that..
The IAT value fluctuation is quite normal during warm-up and while moving. When the bike is static and cold the ambient temp (AT) in the air box is usually cooler than the outside air. So the IAT senses cool air, then warmer air as it is drawn into the air box during static/warm-up at idle. Then, as you start driving, the venturi effect of air being drawn into the air box intakes, cools the air below outside AT. When you stop a light, the heat coming from the engine then brings up the AT values as it enters the air box intake. To be simply said, the IAT values change quickly and constantly. The PV3 can't display them properly because you don't see a timed graph value change as you can see with the "Digital Wrench".
I'm sure we'll see something soon from Polaris/Indian to correct these issues as they continue on with their R&D process. Heck, this model is only 3 months or so into its release. They're not about to be publishing/releasing anything until they're ready to.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The IAT value fluctuation is quite normal during warm-up and while moving. When the bike is static and cold the ambient temp (AT) in the air box is usually cooler than the outside air. So the IAT senses cool air, then warmer air as it is drawn into the air box during static/warm-up at idle. Then, as you start driving, the venturi effect of air being drawn into the air box intakes, cools the air below outside AT. When you stop a light, the heat coming from the engine then brings up the AT values as it enters the air box intake. To be simply said, the IAT values change quickly and constantly. The PV3 can't display them properly because you don't see a timed graph value change as you can see with the "Digital Wrench".
I'm sure we'll see something soon from Polaris/Indian to correct these issues as they continue on with their R&D process. Heck, this model is only 3 months or so into its release. They're not about to be publishing/releasing anything until they're ready to.
Henceforth my saying
"Which is not abnormal"

on the "R&D" you bring up,,
Yup, exactly!
I ask. do you think the only place this happens is in a lab? With only their bikes?
 

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So, your not one who should try it.
This is an experiment that will do no harm, and may help confirm the issues many of these early bikes have.
I may or may not have gotten this info from a high up source as something to try after filling out a very long questionnaire regarding my machine that has a common issue to others. This experiment may help them determine what the tech bulletin will be...

I also see a fluctuating read out of the IAT on the display of my PV3 untill warm.. which is not exactly abnormal, but still could be something..

As has been said, early adaptors, are beta testers that help perfect the new products.
This is part of that..
Jeez Hatt.....when you are looking for someone to experiment it might help if you clarify that with the title. Maybe something like “Anyone feeling adven..... never mind.
 

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This is an experiment that will do no harm, and may help confirm the issues many of these early bikes have.
As has been said, early adaptors, are beta testers that help perfect the new products.
Maybe all your experimenting has led to the vibe issue? :rolleyes::(
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
I meant the aftermarket fuel map flashing and removing sensors from their intended environment/location.
I did the fuel map almost from the start. (Like mile 50) I had no choice at that point. I asked Indian if there was a fix for it and they said no.. after getting it home the bike was nearly unrideable. So I went out on my own to resolve an issue they could not. I got over 1k smooth, quiet miles with it. I'm confident The original map would have done damage to the bike. they are lucky I switched it.. even when I use the stock map now, I can make my bike make some very awful mechanical noises with simply a throttle blip.

I didn't experiment with the sensor until the behest of my regional service rep floated the idea and gave me a service manual of which to guide me since we are now in a "phuck it" mind set. This was after and separate from my issue. I was asked to do this after I filled out 1 of the surveys I took where I denoted I could not recommend an FTR to anyone due to them being unfit to for to many consumers due to fuel mapping alone. again, separate from my specific issue.
 

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I do feel for your problem. But my FTR 1200s has had absolutely none of the issues described by you and sounds as if it's maybe a one-off assembly/component issue.
I went completely by the manual on the break-in procedure (as I do on all new machinery/equipment/vehicles), keeping rpm, throttle position and variable road speed well within what the manufacture posted for the mileage ranges. That's with and still the factory fuel mapping in the ECM. And I've got 700+ miles on it now. It's just my opinion that new owners follow these break-in procedures 100% completely before they start experimenting with aftermarket fuel map flashing, no matter how the motorcycle is running off the showroom floor.
Now you may disagree, but it takes running time for the engine components to come completely clean of all abnormalities and start working well with each other as designed by the engineers.
 

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even when I use the stock map now, I can make my bike make some very awful mechanical noises with simply a throttle blip
As if the engine want to spin backwards? Yep, same.

Irt to the air intake sensor, is that part #4010644? (a very common Polaris part actually)

I went completely by the manual on the break-in procedure (as I do on all new machinery/equipment/vehicles), keeping rpm, throttle position and variable road speed well within what the manufacture posted for the mileage ranges. That's with and still the factory fuel mapping in the ECM. And I've got 700+ miles on it now. It's just my opinion that new owners follow these break-in procedures 100% completely before they start experimenting with aftermarket fuel map flashing, no matter how the motorcycle is running off the showroom floor.
You're going offtopic dude. And, yes, that's just your opinion.

I'm fairly certain @Hatt knows what to do and what not to do while breaking in a new engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
As if the engine want to spin backwards? Yep, same.

Irt to the air intake sensor, is that part #4010644? (a very common Polaris part actually)


You're going offtopic dude. And, yes, that's just your opinion.

I'm fairly certain @Hatt knows what to do and what not to do while breaking in a new engine.
Exactly like that. In fact one time it did that, the engine completely snuffed out. Like faster than if you hit the switch or ignition. As abruptly and half as loud as an engine does when it launches it's conn rod through a new window in the block.

On the sensor I'd have to look again, and will do so after my Sons practice.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I do feel for your problem. But my FTR 1200s has had absolutely none of the issues described by you and sounds as if it's maybe a one-off assembly/component issue.
I went completely by the manual on the break-in procedure (as I do on all new machinery/equipment/vehicles), keeping rpm, throttle position and variable road speed well within what the manufacture posted for the mileage ranges. That's with and still the factory fuel mapping in the ECM. And I've got 700+ miles on it now. It's just my opinion that new owners follow these break-in procedures 100% completely before they start experimenting with aftermarket fuel map flashing, no matter how the motorcycle is running off the showroom floor.
Now you may disagree, but it takes running time for the engine components to come completely clean of all abnormalities and start working well with each other as designed by the engineers.
I'll raise you and state that I normally don't modify anything till after the warranty expires because I'm often the kind of guy who ends up in this position right here. But, this was different. Why?
My bike was barley rideable. And made bad noises pretty frequently.
I asked Indian if they had a fix. They don't.
So to your post, I have some questions.
which is it? Was it my fault? Or a one off manufacturer issue?
What does the manual say about break-in for an engine in a state of tune that has nasty mechanical noises? Pre-detonation? Constant stalls that were dangerous to any but an experienced rider?
What does it say for when the people that made that manual, tell you they have no fix for the condition they created?
As Ive said before, and if you had some context, you would know that I what I did, was far better than what they had done for break-in of a an engine.
 

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I know what you mean, as if the pre-ignition was way too soon instantly killing the engine. Like a knock-of-death.


Yeah, I'm not so sure about the sensor either (could also be the cooland temp sensor).
 

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The fuel tuning was absolutely necessary on my bike just from a safety standpoint . I’m still disappointed in Indian for releasing the bike with this tune. They left it to their customers to decide on how to fix it . I went to the dealer first and received no answers.
Indian knows or somebody at Indian knows the potential problems with this bike .
It’s time .
 

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I'll raise you and state that I normally don't modify anything till after the warranty expires because I'm often the kind of guy who ends up in this position right here. But, this was different. Why?
My bike was barley rideable. And made bad noises pretty frequently.
I asked Indian if they had a fix. They don't.
So to your post, I have some questions.
which is it? Was it my fault? Or a one off manufacturer issue?
What does the manual say about break-in for an engine in a state of tune that has nasty mechanical noises? Pre-detonation? Constant stalls that were dangerous to any but an experienced rider?
What does it say for when the people that made that manual, tell you they have no fix for the condition they created?
As I've said before, and if you had some context, you would know that I what I did, was far better than what they had done for break-in of a an engine.
If these issues showed up on a new motorcycle or any vehicle I purchased from any manufacturer, I would have returned it immediately to the dealership and left it with them until it was operating correctly. There's no reason for a owner of a new vehicle to fix an ride-ability/mechanical issue from the manufacturer. Even if the dealership had no explanation or fix at the time of return. If they couldn't repair the issue within a reasonable amount of time, I would have demanded a replacement model.That's why there is the 'Lemon Law' to protect owners from these issues. I believe your situation has been incorrectly handled by the dealer, manufacturer and ultimately you.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
If these issues showed up on a new motorcycle or any vehicle I purchased from any manufacturer, I would have returned it immediately to the dealership and left it with them until it was operating correctly. There's no reason for a owner of a new vehicle to fix an ride-ability/mechanical issue from the manufacturer. Even if the dealership had no explanation or fix at the time of return. If they couldn't repair the issue within a reasonable amount of time, I would have demanded a replacement model.That's why there is the 'Lemon Law' to protect owners from these issues. I believe your situation has been incorrectly handled by the dealer, manufacturer and ultimately you.
I've Lemon lawed before it's no picnic.. if I started the process of it at day one, I'd still have the bike, with the addition of fees.
In fact it was such a ridiculous process my dealer just bought the bike back from me after over a month of dicking around.
But is funny to hear all this from a guy that we are all handling the situation wrong, who him self didn't wait for the lower street version and lowered there bike.
Kettle, pot, kettle...
You speak to me like I'm whining about it. I know my options, I choose not use them, due to the fact that what would it have done? Nothing.
When the mfgr has no fix, and it's not an isolated thing, doing the normal things would get you nothing. Literally.
 
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