Indian Motorcycle Forum banner
1 - 20 of 51 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
593 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I understand Motus recently shut down operations, primarily due to lack of funding/cash flow. This was a very unique, modern motorcycle, with a potent and unique engine. This platform would fill a void where Indian is lacking (a high performance, large displacement engine for a sportier, large bike). To me, this might make an interesting powerplant for a fixed fairing bike with all the modern features and performance. I can't say that I know much about them, only recently having started reading on them. Given the buying spree that Polaris has been on, I'm not sure this is such a huge stretch.

Any thoughts?
 
  • Like
Reactions: SgtAl

·
Bronze member
2019 FTR 1200
Joined
·
1,314 Posts
Personally, I can't imagine it playing out that way. Polaris has always struck me as a very cautious and calculated company, especially with the Indian brand. They don't seem to move a muscle without doing a ton of market research and number crunching beforehand, and when they do make a move, the risk is minimal. If there was a significantly viable market for what Motus was offering they would probably still be afloat today. If Polaris determines that a large displacement high performance engine like a V4 is a worthy venture I imagine they will develop it in-house via SwissAuto. Polaris is fully capable of developing high performance engines, they did it with the FTR750, they do it with their snowmobiles, they could do it with Indian as well, maybe they will, but they will only do it if they believe it will sell, and the death of Motus isn't exactly encouraging in that regard.

I know there are a lot of you out there waiting for Polaris to build you a fixed fairing high performance mega bagger and/or a 650 lb big twin softail killer but it's going to take more than a "please and thank you" to convince Polaris that it's worth the development. Money talks, if Polaris sees their heavyweight sales declining and fixed fairing heavywright performance touring bike and/or Softail sales skyrocketing they will follow suite. They are following Ducati Scrambler's lead with the FTR because lightweight affordable standards are selling and if they can match that formula well enough they will get a piece of the pie, and it's not a hard formula to match, it's low risk, it's an easy game to join. Matching the formula for a continent crushing high tech liquid cooled touring monster is a MUCH harder formula to nail, will take significantly more time to develop, and will only be developed if they are absolutely confident that it will succeed in the face of gargantuan competition from BMW who, let's face it, are probably building the greatest touring motorcycles on the planet right now for those that can afford them.
 

·
Bronze member
Joined
·
3,611 Posts
Well reinie we disagree, I don't see an in line four ever coming into fruition. V-4 possibly but not a horizontal more vertical like the jap bikes. Face it complaining about heat from a V twin imagine what it would be like with a V-4 that sticks out on your legs. MOTUS is a cool bike, very costly and hand made. Could Polaris buy it? Sure, will they, I doubt it unless they have a paten they want. Or if they could mass produce it and drop 5-6 grand off of the price.
 

·
Gold member
Joined
·
6,463 Posts
They need to focus on Indian only, they’re probably still feeling the ill effects of Victory memories, Also they need to focus on opening dealerships focus on warrant issues, proper training classes for mechanics. I believe their plate is full. So no!
 

·
Bronze member
Joined
·
4,751 Posts
Never going to happen. Most people have no clue who Motis is, they sold very few bikes and were expensive, there is a reason their financial backers backed out, no money to be made, just like Delorean, Tesla and many other cool failed companies. Tesla is still failing and not done yet, but looks that way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
593 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
To me, what is interesting is the "core engine" of the Motus, more than the sport touring package. They took a trick from the Chevy playbook. At a time when everyone is going with somewhat complicated overhead cam, 4 valve heads to make power, they roll out a powerplant with a cam-in-block, pushrod, 2-valve heads-that puts out similar performance to the OHC motors. This should be far cheaper to produce. Mixed feelings of the longitudinal engine. I had an inline triple (Rocket III) and the torque reaction when sitting still was fun, it rocks like an old school muscle car. Flip side-the V-4 design is wide when mounted that way and would probably preclude floorboards/forward controls. But-that makes for a short engine, allows it to be tucked well forward and puts the weight up front. A transverse engine would be narrower and IMO look better (more conventional). But then you have seat height and heat issues. Even with liquid cooling, longitudinal V-twins have some issues with heating the seat-just not like the T-111.

Unlikely to happen, but kind of fun to contemplate. Seems like too good an engine concept not to do something with.
 

·
Gold member
Joined
·
6,463 Posts
Helmet Personal protective equipment Motorcycle helmet Clothing Sports gear
Never going to happen. Most people have no clue who Motis is, they sold very few bikes and were expensive, there is a reason their financial backers backed out, no money to be made, just like Delorean, Tesla and many other cool failed companies. Tesla is still failing and not done yet, but looks that way.
Just so you know the spelling, I believe it means Motorcycle USA. They’re a nice ride, my buddy and I rode the bike at Americade this year. Thumbs up for both of us.
 

·
Senior member / silver
Joined
·
3,453 Posts
I can't see Polaris investing heavily into another MC brand given the current state of the industry. I think they will continue to diversify within the power sport industry.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
310 Posts
Is Motus for sale? That’s the first question. If it were, then someone with the right offer could buy it. By reducing the costs to produce the components as Polaris did with Indian, the motor could be VERY competitive. The Motus engine would more than make a great platform for many models. The great point is that it would be very buildable for most enthusiasts.
SPEND 20 MILLION TO DEVELOP A NEW ENGINE OR Motus? P.S. the motor also works great in the off road vehicles as well as tested already.
 

·
Silver member
Joined
·
5,505 Posts
At some point Indian may need to break through the "V twin" barrier, but once there, they could build anything they want imho. I don't think they need Motus for that, and if they do, it's for the name (??), not for the bikes. I don't see how Indian could be interested in an engine based on a half small block V-8.

For a small series as Motus built them, that's fine, excellent. But if you have the ability to build whatever you want, why use this?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,969 Posts
Personally, I can't imagine it playing out that way. Polaris has always struck me as a very cautious and calculated company, especially with the Indian brand. They don't seem to move a muscle without doing a ton of market research and number crunching beforehand, and when they do make a move, the risk is minimal. If there was a significantly viable market for what Motus was offering they would probably still be afloat today. If Polaris determines that a large displacement high performance engine like a V4 is a worthy venture I imagine they will develop it in-house via SwissAuto. Polaris is fully capable of developing high performance engines, they did it with the FTR750, they do it with their snowmobiles, they could do it with Indian as well, maybe they will, but they will only do it if they believe it will sell, and the death of Motus isn't exactly encouraging in that regard.

I know there are a lot of you out there waiting for Polaris to build you a fixed fairing high performance mega bagger and/or a 650 lb big twin softail killer but it's going to take more than a "please and thank you" to convince Polaris that it's worth the development. Money talks, if Polaris sees their heavyweight sales declining and fixed fairing heavywright performance touring bike and/or Softail sales skyrocketing they will follow suite. They are following Ducati Scrambler's lead with the FTR because lightweight affordable standards are selling and if they can match that formula well enough they will get a piece of the pie, and it's not a hard formula to match, it's low risk, it's an easy game to join. Matching the formula for a continent crushing high tech liquid cooled touring monster is a MUCH harder formula to nail, will take significantly more time to develop, and will only be developed if they are absolutely confident that it will succeed in the face of gargantuan competition from BMW who, let's face it, are probably building the greatest touring motorcycles on the planet right now for those that can afford them.
Why spend that kind of money in R&D when they can pick up the engine info/design for pennies on the dollar at the bankruptcy sale?

.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
593 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
At some point Indian may need to break through the "V twin" barrier, but once there, they could build anything they want imho. I don't think they need Motus for that, and if they do, it's for the name (??), not for the bikes. I don't see how Indian could be interested in an engine based on a half small block V-8.

For a small series as Motus built them, that's fine, excellent. But if you have the ability to build whatever you want, why use this?
1) Compared to a 4-valve/cylinder OHC/DOHC motor, this should be inexpensive to produce, yet still offers very good performance
2) Maintenance free hydraulic lifters.
3) More compact than a OHC motor (typically)
4) The design is done and could be picked up for pennies compared to starting from scratch
5) It could go into production more quickly than a "clean sheet design"
6) It sounds freekin' great! :)

Probably not going to happen. I doubt we'll see Polaris play aggressively in the performance market. Could be wrong-we'll see where the FTR goes.
 

·
Rider
Joined
·
1,072 Posts
Frankly, I think it's a "no brainer" for Indian to buy the rights of the Motus engine, "Indianize" it and put it into a GW Killer. Just my $0.02.... john
 

·
Diamond member
Joined
·
9,096 Posts
Hmmmmm.. OK, I'll bite.
if,,,,, IF,,,,, they were to do this,, I'd bet most of its tech would go into its side by sides.. not Indian. Beside the engine, there really is nothing special about a Motus bike.
On the other hand,, most of motus sales were actually of its raw engines. Biggest customer? Side by side owners.......
 
1 - 20 of 51 Posts
Top