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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have an extensive history in motocross, been racing 30+ years. A few years back my wife wanted to be a motorcyclist....so i bought her a clapped out old rebel to learn on then bought her the brand new honda rebel to cruise on. I have ridden sportbikes and harleys, i went to the indian dealership (part of the dealership i get my moto parts from) and ended up with an 18 springfield darkhorse. I ride it more then drive a car....
My point to this thread is few fold, 1- im a husqvarna guy (which is owned by ktm) and know polaris and ktm sleep together occasionally, i am wondering how much influence ktm had on the thunderstroke engine. 2- how is it that harleys are so sought after when the indians are a LOT better at handling and comfort. To get a fatboy to go through some curves i almost have to get off the bike and lean off the side i want to turn to because they dont like laying over....was a serious reason for my indian purchase. The indian handles a lot better. 3- how isnt Indian the new american bike? Seems harley has went all chinese and now they seem to be making problematic bikes. On said fatboy of my buddys, its a 2019 with the Milwaukee 8, has been in the shop constantly under warrenty because of many small failures. The drive belt was (still is by my view) off center, resulting in a torn up drive belt and some bolt that comes off inside occasionally.....harley thinks my buddy is to blame and has said so, which is why he is trading in for an indian also, the harley brand is going down hill in many ways, horrible service, dealers want to TELL you which bike to buy, and im not sure they are even made in america anymore.
These indians are great cruisers, i want a scout to hit the store with or cruise over a buddys, but this springfield wants me to cruise 1k a day, hard to stay off of it.
To recap, is ktm helping polaris? Seems indians are more American then harley at this point, why arent they labelled as such? Kudos to indian on the frame geometry, 800 pound bikes feeling like a 200 pound bike shows serious interest in handling.
 

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H-D has been the only name in American motorcycles for a lot of years. As such, they rely too much on their history and on their current designs, which are preferred by their older, long-term clientele. That is one reason why so many die-hard H-D riders are quick to jump on the "it's not a REAL Indian, it's a POLARIS Indian!" bandwagon. It is harder to face the fact that, small issues aside, Indian makes a better bike.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
H-D has been the only name in American motorcycles for a lot of years. As such, they rely too much on their history and on their current designs, which are preferred by their older, long-term clientele. That is one reason why so many die-hard H-D riders are quick to jump on the "it's not a REAL Indian, it's a POLARIS Indian!" bandwagon. It is harder to face the fact that, small issues aside, Indian makes a better bike.
It seems if indian just follows h-d's ride days and sets up shop next to them for a comparable, harley would be extinct in a year or 2. Isnt the president of harley, who just stepped down, foriegn? An American idea shouldnt be cause for calling it an American company. Polaris is American.... they pretty much run the workhorse 4 wheeler, snowmobile and sxs worlds....all american also.....
 

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The 111 was developed by a company in Switzerland called Swiss Auto. So, nothing to do with KTM.

Cu,
Sven
 

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Harley is as American as apple pie. IDK if their CEO was furrin, but I do know Indians designer is.
I agree Indian is making a better product right now. It's definitely shook HD up. Which is a good thing.
Over all I agree with your sentiment, but I Think you have some details wrong in regards to HD and Indian. But hey, your new to the US mix, as am I for the most part.
This I can guarantee..
your confusion, has only just begun if you have ridden mostly furrin.. it was confusing to me and some stuff remains confusing.
Welcome to the tribe
 

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I have an extensive history in motocross, been racing 30+ years. A few years back my wife wanted to be a motorcyclist....so i bought her a clapped out old rebel to learn on then bought her the brand new honda rebel to cruise on. I have ridden sportbikes and harleys, i went to the indian dealership (part of the dealership i get my moto parts from) and ended up with an 18 springfield darkhorse. I ride it more then drive a car....
My point to this thread is few fold, 1- im a husqvarna guy (which is owned by ktm) and know polaris and ktm sleep together occasionally, i am wondering how much influence ktm had on the thunderstroke engine. 2- how is it that harleys are so sought after when the indians are a LOT better at handling and comfort. To get a fatboy to go through some curves i almost have to get off the bike and lean off the side i want to turn to because they dont like laying over....was a serious reason for my indian purchase. The indian handles a lot better. 3- how isnt Indian the new american bike? Seems harley has went all chinese and now they seem to be making problematic bikes. On said fatboy of my buddys, its a 2019 with the Milwaukee 8, has been in the shop constantly under warrenty because of many small failures. The drive belt was (still is by my view) off center, resulting in a torn up drive belt and some bolt that comes off inside occasionally.....harley thinks my buddy is to blame and has said so, which is why he is trading in for an indian also, the harley brand is going down hill in many ways, horrible service, dealers want to TELL you which bike to buy, and im not sure they are even made in america anymore.
These indians are great cruisers, i want a scout to hit the store with or cruise over a buddys, but this springfield wants me to cruise 1k a day, hard to stay off of it.
To recap, is ktm helping polaris? Seems indians are more American then harley at this point, why arent they labelled as such? Kudos to indian on the frame geometry, 800 pound bikes feeling like a 200 pound bike shows serious interest in handling.
My opinions only:
1: Not that I know of any influence, but remotely possible
2: Tradition/heritage/marketing
3: see above (and because merica does not want to get with the rest of the world metric) LOL

I think profit margins for all publicly traded companies is going to the shitter as far as quality durable/production products... "ALL products"
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Harley is as American as apple pie. IDK if their CEO was furrin, but I do know Indians designer is.
I agree Indian is making a better product right now. It's definitely shook HD up. Which is a good thing.
Over all I agree with your sentiment, but I Think you have some details wrong in regards to HD and Indian. But hey, your new to the US mix, as am I for the most part.
This I can guarantee..
your confusion, has only just begun if you have ridden mostly furrin.. it was confusing to me and some stuff remains confusing.
Welcome to the tribe
Im really not sure what furrin means.....
 

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No it wasn't. That was brought up by another member here a while back and someone corrected them. The 111 was designed and tested by Indian right here in the US.
Think what you want. I am working in that business and Swiss Auto was/is a company, owned by Polaris. So they designed and developed the engine, but due to the ownership of Polaris, it is Polaris who did it in the end.....
If you want something running like as good as Swiss clock, buy a 111.


Cu,
Sven
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
No doubt the 111 thunderchicken runs good! I guess i have a hard time with the fight for the "american" motorcycle branding simply because nothing is 100% from anywhere anymore. The japanese and austrians make the best engines, austrians a bit more cutting edge but the japanese hold their own. I just rode the springfield last night in the rainy, 34 degree weather, wind blowing in 30mph gusts....didnt stop until i was soaked and it felt good.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Think what you want. I am working in that business and Swiss Auto was/is a company, owned by Polaris. So they designed and developed the engine, but due to the ownership of Polaris, it is Polaris who did it in the end.....
If you want something running like as good as Swiss clock, buy a 111.


Cu,
Sven
It runs good! I can tell its map is somewhat rich at idle, you can feel it using decel and downshifting, once down to idle rpm it will lurch a bit. Very strong, smooth engine for sure. Is there any long term high mile reports on wear and engine life? Do they use nikisil or steel sleeves in the bore?
 

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Your question as to whether KTM is helping Polaris is an interesting one!

I came from a KTM Duke to an Indian FTR. The transition was a very easy one as all the electronic gadgetry displays and programme selection and availability is almost identical. Personally I think there may be some sharing of technology.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Your question as to whether KTM is helping Polaris is an interesting one!

I came from a KTM Duke to an Indian FTR. The transition was a very easy one as all the electronic gadgetry displays and programme selection and availability is almost identical. Personally I think there may be some sharing of technology.
Polaris bought 25% of ktm back in 05 or 07, ktm however started coming out with just killer mx and offroad bikes and they left polaris behind when they became the super force in mx. To this day, ktm is a standard. Now, polaris being involved during the time of ktms rise again probably shed some tech. Either way, i can see some ktm tech in these engines and also electronics. Its definitely not a bad thing, the swissauto group isnt a slouch either. They specialize in super engines, high powered and light weight.
 

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I can find zero information on swissauto designing the 111 but can find gobs of Info on them designing the FTR 750 engine and other efforts. They have no problem providing that info regarding those efforts. So I'm curious why it's not available regarding the 111.
Please provide a source.
 

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Polaris bought 25% of ktm back in 05 or 07, ktm however started coming out with just killer mx and offroad bikes and they left polaris behind when they became the super force in mx. To this day, ktm is a standard. Now, polaris being involved during the time of ktms rise again probably shed some tech. Either way, i can see some ktm tech in these engines and also electronics. Its definitely not a bad thing, the swissauto group isnt a slouch either. They specialize in super engines, high powered and light weight.
What tech do you speak of?
I don't know of any tech in any of Indians motors or KTMs for that matter that has not been used by everyone else at one point or another over many years. What special proprietary tech from KTM is in them?
I see far more S&S in the 111 than KTM.
 

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No it wasn't. That was brought up by another member here a while back and someone corrected them. The 111 was designed and tested by Indian right here in the US.
Also with help from the folks at S&S, but yes it is an Indian designed and built engine.
 

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I’ve got a bud on the KTM demo team and he says no direct connection that he knows of. He readily admits that industry folks talk over beers a lot. Nothing organized, tho (task forces, design teams etc) — and again stressing that he’s on the front line here and not back in Austria where KTM corporate lives.
 

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I can find zero information on swissauto designing the 111 but can find gobs of Info on them designing the FTR 750 engine and other efforts. They have no problem providing that info regarding those efforts. So I'm curious why it's not available regarding the 111.
Please provide a source.


 
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In the 2 I can read, (sorry don't speak German)
I see no definitive mention of it being a Swiss auto design.
If I'm missing it, please assist.
 
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