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Discussion Starter #1
Reading one of the motorcycle reviews it was mentioned how well suited the indian Scout would be With a 650 cc engine ( A real beginners learners bike at a very affordable price ) Harley are bringing out a street 500 early next year .

Do you think they missed a marketing opportunity by not releasing it in both a 650 cc and with the 1133 cc version ?


"Dont Ride Faster than your guardian angel can fly "

"B....free
Michael
 

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Personally I think the Scout is Small and Nimble enough as it is without needing a smaller engine .. Won't to go smaller than that are plenty around .. Don't relly think Indian or Victory either one is looking to get into the market for anything smaller than a Sportster .. Very Few stay happy with less than 900 CC over the long haul ..
 

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+1 :)
 

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My experience is anything that small for cruising is strictly a non freeway bike. I like to travel and living in Arizona any road out of town is 60mph+.. And in my experience with a higher revving engine like the scout architecture, anything over 4000 rpm the engine becomes buzzy, too busy to be relaxing. The engine is racing. So for me to spend any kind of money on a bike that I can't have fun with leaving the city streets is a waste of money.

Sure you have the Ninja 250 Touring club.. The people pack on thousands of hi-way miles.. But those are higher stress riding miles. I'm not interested in running a bike to 80percent of its capability for miles on end.. It and you will be tired. :)

My 750 BMW R bike sweet spot was at 4000rpm.. That was geared at 55mph.. Anything over was stressing.
The 750 K 3 cylinder was said to be a good distance bike. I haven't road it.

My opinion is based on what I think is a cruiser or what cruising is.. Loafing, loping down the hi-way... Not screaming, buzzing around!!

It seems the scout in its present form gives you the best of both worlds.. And is why I'm interested in owning one... Hence my deposit on a First run bike. :)
 

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I think its a question of price point for Indian. They want to be a premium brand yet if they want to make serious headway into HD's market they need to compete at the lower end to get exposure. I don't think many know much about Indians. Without a lower end bike Indian will not "train up" riders on Indians.....there is no choice (and no used Scouts unfortunately!). I work at a major IT company and one of the best decisions they made early was create a curriculum for training engineers on their network devices and they were hooked on it since that was what they were familiar with. Early exposure is what its all about to create brand loyalty for the long term. Indian has a great opportunity with this bike to get into a new market that HD dominates. Frankly i think HDs are ok, but I really want something different and the Scout IS.....its cool from an oldschool look AND has performance to rival (beat) HD. I hope Indian makes huge inroads to be a big American brand again.

Harley has models in the sub $10k now to hit this younger or new biker market. I'll bet once you go Harley you stick with it. IMO, putting my marketing hat on, if I was Indian i'd absolutely introduce a smaller 600-800cc engine, strip a few things off just to get the bike down to the $8k range. I'm on a more limited budget currently for a bike so that would probably be a heck of a lot easier to justify than the $11k+ price of the 1133cc (which is what i really want anyway and will wait for).
 

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You can make the engine smaller, but it still has the same number of parts (unless you make it a thumper, ugh), so cost and weight are about the same. Where's the value in that?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
For us here in Australia a $18,000 + on roads + cost of accessories makes the Scout a fairly expensive excercise for younger riders etc so having a 650 CC Scout would have been a Great Marketing coupe a bike priced around $10-12,000 MAking it way more affordable kawasaki vulcan S .jpg This is the upcoming 2015 Kawasaki Vulcan S 649 CC that will be priced around $8000 in your part of the world .
2015 Kawasaki Vulcan S first look - Common Tread - RevZilla

"Dont Ride Faster than your guardian angel can fly "

"B....free
Michael
 

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A lot of good points here. I think the important thing for Indian right now is just to get back in the game. Truthfully, from a development point of view, Indian has done an incredible job of bringing 2 different styles of bikes to the market very quickly, and the fact that both classes of bikes appear to be winners coming out of the gate says a lot about the company. I think that down the road there may be a place for more of an entry level bike but I'm guessing that they want to make sure they don't get too aggressive with model proliferation and end up with some problem bikes by moving too fast, which would hurt the company's reputation in the long run.

Another point is that I think that just reducing the displacement of the Scout twin wouldn't save too much money per bike - they'd still have much of the same work and expense. To make a 650 cc twin competitive in price would be at the expense of profit margin. They'd probably have to go to a single cylinder or vertical twin engine to substantially reduce costs. Also, the present Scout is pretty bare bones as is - and I personally love that about the bike.

Some others have mentioned that the present Scout isn't a bad beginner bike and I have to agree. Sure, it could be a bit lighter for a real beginner, but with the low center of gravity and low seat, it's manageable for most people. Another positive is the smooth, even power delivery of the engine. It's a nice powerful engine but the power delivery will help a beginner ride safely while at the same time giving an experienced rider a lot of fun and challenge.

I can see Indian introducing a lot more models in the future and I would guess more of an entry level bike will be included - all to the good as long as they keep up the quality. Personally, I just hope they don't get as crazy as Harley with their model proliferation. Heck, I think they have at least 6 different Sportsters and the list of other models is mind boggling.

ps. Husky, I had a BMW K75 and you heard right, a great long distance bike as far as the engine for a 750cc. Did a couple 1000 mile days on it just to make time (but that's definitely NOT my preferred style of riding). :cool:
 

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For us here in Australia a $18,000 + on roads + cost of accessories makes the Scout a fairly expensive excercise for younger riders etc so having a 650 CC Scout would have been a Great Marketing coupe a bike priced around $10-12,000 MAking it way more affordable View attachment 3006 This is the upcoming 2015 Kawasaki Vulcan S 649 CC that will be priced around $8000 in your part of the world .
2015 Kawasaki Vulcan S first look - Common Tread - RevZilla

"Dont Ride Faster than your guardian angel can fly "

"B....free
Michael
Lock & Load, now THAT is a VERY nice bike - and at that price point it's remarkable!
 

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My experience is anything that small for cruising is strictly a non freeway bike. I like to travel and living in Arizona any road out of town is 60mph+.. And in my experience with a higher revving engine like the scout architecture, anything over 4000 rpm the engine becomes buzzy, too busy to be relaxing. The engine is racing. So for me to spend any kind of money on a bike that I can't have fun with leaving the city streets is a waste of money.

Sure you have the Ninja 250 Touring club.. The people pack on thousands of hi-way miles.. But those are higher stress riding miles. I'm not interested in running a bike to 80percent of its capability for miles on end.. It and you will be tired. :)

My 750 BMW R bike sweet spot was at 4000rpm.. That was geared at 55mph.. Anything over was stressing.
The 750 K 3 cylinder was said to be a good distance bike. I haven't road it.

My opinion is based on what I think is a cruiser or what cruising is.. Loafing, loping down the hi-way... Not screaming, buzzing around!!

It seems the scout in its present form gives you the best of both worlds.. And is why I'm interested in owning one... Hence my deposit on a First run bike. :)
Husky, we gotta get you on one of those beemer bricks. Smooth as stone washed silk. Smoothest engine BMW ever made. Spin it up tight, it comes to life.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The Scout has a twin personality , so it would be ideal as a newbie rider type of bike unfortunately here in OZ (Australia ) beginner riders learners have a maximum bike capacity of 650 CC for at least 12 months , until you get a open licencee you are restricted as to the type of bike you can ride and the boys in blue police this extensibly .

Hence suggesting a 650 CC version would be ideal for beginners .

"Dont Ride Faster than your guardian angel can fly "

B....free
Michael​
 

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The harley 88 twin cam was designed, developed and tested as a 95".. Sold as a 88".. And then you could buy the big bore kit later.. HD made more money.. They could build a scout the same way.. I doubt cheaper. Of course if Indian believed that most would upgrade, maybe 2000,00 off the price counting on everyone upgrading.
 

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Harley has survived a long time without smaller bikes. Every time they tried to enter the small bike market it was a disaster. They let the Japanese market handle what they were good at. The marketing issue changed when the metrics went cruiser and then big cruiser. As long as Harley was the end goal motorcycle they were fine. Today a rider can start on a Yamaha scooter and progress up to a big cruiser in the same brand.

Harley is now trying to enter a market that is flooded with like bikes. A water cooled belt or shaft drive choice is at every brand. The image that Harley has continually promoted of the "Bad Boy" bike doesn't fit well with a beginner who will be identified on a baby Harley. Where do you move up from the Harley Street?

Indian would have an interesting decision to make to enter the market of the beginner rider with a smaller bike. I would think that the look at the possible market share would be interesting. The customer level of disposable income changes and the offer of choices would be a challenge against the metric brands.
 

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Indian would have an interesting decision to make to enter the market of the beginner rider with a smaller bike. I would think that the look at the possible market share would be interesting. The customer level of disposable income changes and the offer of choices would be a challenge against the metric brands.
I think the major obstacle is price point. Not sure what their profit margin is at for what those those that purchased are paying but i've got to imagine its pretty significant at this point provided they got the volume they were hoping for (seeing they ended their promo early i'd say they exceeded expectations). No doubt recovery of tooling costs and engineering is on their mind not so much mass market domination. From a branding standpoint I think Indian needs exposure. They have the mid and high end covered pretty well with their lineup (mostly high end). The low/med might be my target to consider. An $8k-$9k US bike would put this into range of a whole other set of riders. The Harley low end riders are in that range at the base level but Indian is 30-40% above that. Indian may have to really have a new platform built on a smaller spec engine and reduced cost components but it may have impact to their image if they cant make it reliable. $8k-9k is still a premium in my opinion over the japanese brands and if the look is maintained to be oldschool yet a strong performer with modern systems I think it would do Indian well, even if profit margins aren't as sweet as the Scout and above.....get people sold onto the brand early.

Will be interesting to see what they do. I like the Scout for what it is....its unique at a stock level and is not remotely Harley looking....its Indian looking yet has some pretty serious bark and bite. Everybody near me rides a fricken harley that's not on a japanese bike with the few BMW exceptions. I dont mind Harley for what they are but they are not unique unless you throw many thousands onto them and I want more performance in the twisties than what i've seen in reviews. I look forward to validating the Scout in 8 days....and counting!
 

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For us here in Australia a $18,000 + on roads + cost of accessories makes the Scout a fairly expensive excercise for younger riders etc so having a 650 CC Scout would have been a Great Marketing coupe a bike priced around $10-12,000 MAking it way more affordable
"Dont Ride Faster than your guardian angel can fly "

"B....free
Michael
Found another video

About 1/2 way through a rep steps in and offer more insight on
the standard features,(larger tank than Scout 4.7) then talks about accessories such as USB adapter, gear indicator. Seems like a lot of bike for the money.
 
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The different realities of our different countries economies definitely influence our opportunities and choices. When Polaris becomes concerned about their market share in your country and it is feasible for them I'm sure you'll see something.. It's tough here too.. I myself at this point in my life which I've gotten over the Harley virus..( I almost had direct deposit to the dealership for 5 years.) Seen, ridden and met everything Harley, In my neck of the woods.
Which had been a goal for 20 years.
They dont show me anything interesting anymore.. Its just big business trying to figure out how keep making money... for me! I'm done experiencing the Harley "tribe" I'm not enthused anymore.
Next!!
I've seen all the sukiawki's bikesbefore.. I've been impressed with some. And almost buying..... This indian has revived my interest in biking. It's been 5 years since I've rode.... Everyday.. I like ingenuity.. I've seen harley jump through engineering hoops for years.. To make their (platform) viable.. There are still guys younger then I just getting into the Harley tribe.. So they still seem to sell stuff.

For me, Yamaha made the best wanna-be Harleys..

I don't want a Harley anymore. I love sound but I hope I'll fall in love with the scout sound.. Or V-rod, Yamaha bolt!
The new more efficient heart of the ride. Surrounded by lessons learned...,modern.. Not a copy.. But pieces of a lot of ideas put together in one bike. Original in one way or another. I want one in each color!! :)
 
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