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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Since it has been determined that upgraded springs (and the attending expense) are required for either cam on 2018 and older Thunderstrokes, I thought the power curve differences should be made succinct and easy to find on our forum.

These are the Lloydz website charts for the two cams. Lloydz has removed their/these charts from their website (it is easy to see why) , but I had saved them.

Thanks to @Morphy for his work in "aligning" the two Lloydz charts onto eachother - they had different scalings and required matching the RPM points. WIth @Morphy 's effort and skill, we have an "easy to see" comparison straight from Lloydz (the horses' mouth).

These/this engine(s) are using Lloydz slipons and a Lloydz air cleaner ( Their ArrowHead IIRC)

579954


Here are the two charts as they appeared on the Lloydz website:

558
579955


585
579956
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
All members should be fully aware of the nuances of these cams as that information is readily available here - There should be no need to reiterate the idiosyncrasies here.

The quality of the tuning will absolutely determine what you end up with for power. From many angles, including member data, the 585's can only reach maximum performance when fueled at 12.5 - 12.6 to one at WOT - which is apparently NOT achieved / put into effect with most tunes and from most "tuning shops".

The current configurations/measurements of the cam options dictate that Stage III's are likely the best option (when all considerations are taken into account) - but until/unless they become available as a stand-alone purchase, they are not cost effective.
 

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If I understood @CraigB1960 correctly from a recent post where he had measured and compared cams:

The stageIII cams and the Lloydz 558s are similar ... with the closing ramp on the 558s (and of course the 585s) being drastic which make them acoustically noticeable.

Not going to ditch my 585s for stageIIIs ... got used to them!
(the noise is not dominant at idle ... and riding around I cannot hear them over my exhaust note!)

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Discussion Starter #4
The 585's produce, can produce, more power than any other option we know of , if tuned correctly.

Without proper WOT fueling/ignition tuning (AKA the cookie-cutter tuning shop dyno tunes running 13:1 @ WOT), I bet it doesn't matter which cams one installs - they probably all make the same power with a lean WOT (12.9 - 13.2 )..
 

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The 585's produce, can produce, more power than any other option we know of , if tuned correctly.

Without proper WOT fueling/ignition tuning (AKA the cookie-cutter tuning shop dyno tunes running 13:1 @ WOT), I bet it doesn't matter which cams one installs - they probably all make the same power with a lean WOT (12.9 - 13.2 )..
You can assume my tune is maxed out.
Am running ~12.6 at WOT (until component protection kicks in LOL)
WBCX here ya know ;)




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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
You can assume my tune is maxed out.
Am running ~12.6 at WOT (until component protection kicks in LOL)
WBCX here ya know ;)




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Absolutely C , your foray into testing lower 12's (thanks for letting me take part in that) , and your reports of results are one of the few "data sets" we have for how to get max benefit from 585's..

Most everyone else (with typical "dyno shop tunes") are blowing their "still combusting" lean mixtures out their tailpipes (@WOT) because the 585's open the exhaust valves so much earlier !!!!
 
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Discussion Starter #7
What would be quite interesting (with 585 usage) is using a dead stock, as delivered, ignition and Main Target AFR Table, redefine ONLY the VE table (in order to hit the stock AFR targets) and Dyno chart it..

For many technical reasons/deductions, I think the results would be "eye opening" ...
 
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