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2018 Indian Chief, "Adeline"
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Man, I wish my 2021 Springfield DH came with it! I don't like using the phone for my GPS and prefer something fixed to the bike. I'd have loved to chug the Garmin in favour of something that was part of the bike!

Hope Indian offers it separately as an accessory for bigger bikes.

video:

View attachment 622519
Since I'd be changing the subject of the thread above, I decided to just start a new discussion.

In the thread above, a lot of the discussion was how many of us wish we could retrofit the new 4" Ride Command on our older bikes, and how Indian wouldn't allow it so you'd be encouraged to buy the new bike. This thread isn't a discussion on whether someone should or shouldn't attempt a retrofit. Instead, because we know there's fitment (what Indian says works, or "is allowed") and fit (what works, but Indian would say doesn't or "won't allow")--for example, fitment claims the air shock from a chieftain cannot be installed on a chief, but there's countless threads of people doing just that, and loving it until they install an Arnott or some such--this thread is about identifying what would actually prevent it from being retrofitted to an older bike from a purely technical perspective (e.g. not considering cost).

@HINK , if you think General Discussion is the wrong place for this, could you move it for me? * you’re good. This covers a variety of models so “general discussion“ is a good place / Hink

My own thoughts so far...

The 4"RC device is probably tied to the ECU, so I'd wager this is probably really a question of whether you can retrofit a 2022 ECU onto an older TS111. Since I own a 2018 Chief, that'll be my example. So, what would tie an ECU to a specific model year of TS111 bike?

  • Rear cylinder deactivation introduced in 2019 is a possibility. From what I've read on it in the forum (admitting that I may have missed some tidbit of vital info), it sounds like the deactivation is solely an ECU thing--that is, there's no mechanical disconnect happening there, just the ECU cutting the fuel to the rear cylinder. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
  • Ride modes--I'm aware that some of the newer TS111's support multiple mappings from the dealer. Again, though, this would just be a software thing--install that ECU on an older bike, and now the older bike supports multiple ride modes.
  • I'm sure that by now we've all seen or heard about the upcoming VVT. it seems that was not introduced for the 2022 model year 111's, but when it comes, that would absolutely tie an ECU to its model year, since there are mechanical differences to the bottom end of the engine to advance/retard the valves.
  • Weights/balance of the pistons, crank etc -- There are threads on how these get adjusted as time goes by--the thread about installing late(r) model jugs on an older bottom was a great resource for this. My guess is that the ECU may compensate for this by adjusting timings and such, but I don't see where that would prove problematic retrofitting the newer ECU to an older engine that doesn't have weights and balances the ECU would expect. Or, nothing that couldn't be resolved with a custom tune, anyhow.
Again, I'm thinking in terms of my 2018; maybe there's more to that list for an older model year. Chime in on what I'm missing, or if I got something wrong above. What else would tie an ECU to a specific model year that couldn't be resolved through a custom tune? Maybe you've replaced your ECU with one from a newer model year; how'd that go for you?
 
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My thoughts are that like the other technology upgrades Indian has introduced there will be no retrofit available. Like car companies it's called planned obsolescence which is to entice people to buy the new models. I would expect this touch screen to be appearing on the non-fairing models in the next year or two. Sorry but business is what it is these days.
 

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Premium Member
2018 Indian Chief, "Adeline"
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178 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
My thoughts are that like the other technology upgrades Indian has introduced there will be no retrofit available. Like car companies it's called planned obsolescence which is to entice people to buy the new models. I would expect this touch screen to be appearing on the non-fairing models in the next year or two. Sorry but business is what it is these days.
Yep, absolutely understood. As a software engineer, I firmly understand that everything I write is written to be deprecated. From that perspective, limiting the hardware that has to be supported by the software reduces the cost to develop. From a web developer's perspective, the same thing can be said about browser support. 20% of my time writing the front end of a website will support 90% of modern browsers. The remaining 80% of my time will be accommodating the remaining 10% of older browsers. Or, in the automotive example, ECU's can be moved through the various model years, provided that the hardware the ECU expects (or "reasonable equivalents") exist on the canbus.

However, this thread is more about identifying and detailing what has changed mechanically or electrically (for CANBus components) through the model years that would prevent an ECU of any given model year from working with an earlier model year bike. The ECU is really just a small computer that runs its own software, so for the purposes of this "exercise" we can think of it as the software, and the motorcycle and its components as the collective hardware. It just happens that the previous thread is what spurred my thoughts down this track, and so is my example.
 

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It came to mind that it's beyond the ECU. What changed in the other modules like the VCM? Wiring harness changes through the model years?, especially when RC was introduced.

Hell, easy to overcomplicate this.
 

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Premium Member
2018 Indian Chief, "Adeline"
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178 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
It came to mind that it's beyond the ECU. What changed in the other modules like the VCM? Wiring harness changes through the model years?, especially when RC was introduced.
Yeah, I figure the devil will be in the little things like that, vs larger changes. Some of that (e.g. wiring harnesses and the like) could probably be adapted by hand with a ton of really tedious labor, but some might not. And as far as what changed in another module, that's definitely the case. If another module newly supports feature X, communication with that module will have changed to support the control of feature X by the ECU. An ECU attempting to communicate with a module that doesn't support feature X may fail, requiring that module to be included in the retrofit. That said, what those changes may be, I don't know. I'll defer to those more knowledgeable than I.
 
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Even if possible, I’m sure you’d spend enough money to make the retrofit non-cost effective. And at trade or resale, you’ll never recoup what you spent.
 

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Now that the weather is nicer and I’ve had the opportunity to ride my bike a bit, I wouldn’t want the ride command at the location where the gauge is on my Springfield DH. It’s fine for a quick glance, but it requires taking eye off the road.
I got a Garmin also called it a day.
 

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It would probably be akin to dropping a LS1 from a 4th Gen Camaro into a 3rd Gen Camaro. The best way to do that is to get the entire engine, transmission, computer, and wiring harness from the donor car and drop it into your mullet-mobile.

By comparison, you would probably need the RC display, complete wiring harness, VCU, and ECU, to make it work. Mechanically speaking, the 2014-2021 TS111/116 are fundamentally the same for this purpose, with only minor changes between model years/displacement. In theory, you SHOULD be able to physically retrofit the new system to an older bike and have it work. The big question would be if Digital Wrench would be able to play with the bike when you took it to the dealer for anything.
 

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German Rider
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Why not, the digital wrench will think, it is the donor bike at the tester and not the one in reality, so you would also need the data from donor, like type, VIN, etc.....

Cu,
Sven
 
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After you figure this out for the TS111/116, us Scout owners would love to have this figured out for us too :)
 
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