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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
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I have experienced the rear brake rotor on my 2016 Indian Springfield delaminating I have pictures that clearly show its de laminated the dealer where I bought the motorcycle is telling me it is a wear item and not covered under warranty! I called Indian and they have opened a case to investigate my claim. I am considering taking it to another dealer about an hour away. I have had problems with my dealer goudging me in the past. They want to replace the rotor and pads for $560+tax pads quality EBC pads can be had for $35.
 

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I hardly ever touch my rear brakes in normal city driving!

Mostly when trail braking in the curves or to hold myself in place on a slope or at stop signs and red lights.

I never use them without using the front brakes, and never use them by themselves in an emergency stop!
Good way to do a classic high-side wreck!

By 'delaminating', do you mean that they are scoring or the metal is coming off the surface or is it the pads that are coming apart or.... ?
Just looking at the outside rim doesn't tell me much about what is happening to the rotor or pads.
 

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Wow.....I can see in your picture where the left side of the rotor is coming off. I thought disc brakes were solid pieces of metal. This concerns me because it leads to the thought that Indian is using an inexpensive metal for the rotor and laminating a harder substance on the outside. Kind of like a retread on a tire that will tend to separate when heated if there is air caught in between the tire and the retread.


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I am calling bulshit on this thead!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Never seen a laminated disk. That should be stamped or cast from what I've seen on other disks.



Mike
Blow up the picture
I hardly ever touch my rear brakes in normal city driving!

Mostly when trail braking in the curves or to hold myself in place on a slope or at stop signs and red lights.

I never use them without using the front brakes, and never use them by themselves in an emergency stop!
Good way to do a classic high-side wreck!

By 'delaminating', do you mean that they are scoring or the metal is coming off the surface or is it the pads that are coming apart or.... ?
Just looking at the outside rim doesn't tell me much about what is happening to the rotor or pads.
Blow up the picture you can see the rotor has a line or appears like a crack just in from the outside of the rotor and ditto on the limited use of the rear brake... just had 10000 mile check and all was normal ? It was in for warranty repair of the TPS system
 

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FWIW: Since most of the bigger bikes are now using two calipers up front with a decent sized thickness on the pads, and a single caliper on the rear,with thin pads,[due to limited space between the swing arm] , if you're in the habit of using the rear brake over the front brake,then you'll have problems back there.

My understanding is,the reason the manufacturers are doing that is because 80-90% of your normal braking is done [or supposed to be done] using the FRONT BRAKE ONLY.The rear brake is for emergency stopping and or holding on a hill.So with that in mind,that would be one explanation why the pads AND or rear rotor are wearing prematurely.My last bike was going thru rear pads also as they too were very thin like the pads used on the Indian, as well as other models built today,until the dealer explained the "WHY" to me .So after learning that,then thinking about what he said,and following that advice,my rear pads were then giving me 20-25,000 miles to a set and the rotor was no longer wearing prematurely.

And if you use the rear brake per the manufacturers recommendation,yet they are still wearing prematurely,then either the pads are hanging up in the caliper,[binding and not releasing,due to rust,road dust/dirt,etc.] or,there's a problem with the caliper itself.

And if the back rotor wears prematurely and or comes apart,as in your case,it's usually caused from excessive usage or a caliper that's hanging up preventing the pads from releasing.When ever the rear tire is changed,that rear caliper is supposed to be inspected,cleaned,and the contact points on the pads, cleaned and lubed so they can move back and forth,freely.But many stealers don't do that,instead,stickin it to the customer for a new rotor,pads,and,of course, labor.So, as you noted ,the price to do the job is NOT cheap!! Dave!!!
 

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Blow up the picture you can see the rotor has a line or appears like a crack just in from the outside of the rotor and ditto on the limited use of the rear brake... just had 10000 mile check and all was normal ? It was in for warranty repair of the TPS system
Yes, I can see that now!
A better explanation or some photo shopped arrows might have helped... :)
When the picture is blown up you can see a bunch of layers in the picture!

Perhaps there was a malfunction in the caliper or the brake pads were dragging to cause a lot of excessive heat to make it come apart?
Maybe a stone keeping the calipers from receding?
Are the rotors turned blue from heat?

Excessive use as the main braking source in rolling hills and curve riding could also cause them to heat up and destroy a rotor......
 

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Let me get this straight Indian are putting a back brake on the bike BUT you are not meant to use it. So if you are in an area that you HAVE to use the back brake do not by an Indian, because you are not meant to use it, it's just for show.
 

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Blow up the picture

Blow up the picture you can see the rotor has a line or appears like a crack just in from the outside of the rotor and ditto on the limited use of the rear brake... just had 10000 mile check and all was normal ? It was in for warranty repair of the TPS system
No no, I saw it. It's delaminating alright. I've just never seen a laminated rotor, that's all.



Mike
 

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Even though it looks like delamination, in reality it is a layer of the cast where the porosity was poor, dampness was allowed to get in, (usually through big temperature changes), and the water rusted off a layer of the cast.

Rotors are not "laminated" but the casting can be so porous, (low quality), that moisture can get in. Usually it happens closer to the burnished finish where the pads run. Biggest temp changes there.

It was pretty common on a lot of early 2000-2006 GM's of various models, especially heavier models like Caddys and Buicks, where the model can get very heavy with accessories and larger engines, but they didn't put on larger rotors. Heavy, lots of heat and temp changes, water got in, the casting would flake off, looking just like a delamination. GM at the time was using some sort of composite cast iron at the time that was more porous than it should have been.
Either way, the rotor has to be changed out.
That's about all I know!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
FWIW: Since most of the bigger bikes are now using two calipers up front with a decent sized thickness on the pads, and a single caliper on the rear,with thin pads,[due to limited space between the swing arm] , if you're in the habit of using the rear brake over the front brake,then you'll have problems back there.

My understanding is,the reason the manufacturers are doing that is because 80-90% of your normal braking is done [or supposed to be done] using the FRONT BRAKE ONLY.The rear brake is for emergency stopping and or holding on a hill.So with that in mind,that would be one explanation why the pads AND or rear rotor are wearing prematurely.My last bike was going thru rear pads also as they too were very thin like the pads used on the Indian, as well as other models built today,until the dealer explained the "WHY" to me .So after learning that,then thinking about what he said,and following that advice,my rear pads were then giving me 20-25,000 miles to a set and the rotor was no longer wearing prematurely.

And if you use the rear brake per the manufacturers recommendation,yet they are still wearing prematurely,then either the pads are hanging up in the caliper,[binding and not releasing,due to rust,road dust/dirt,etc.] or,there's a problem with the caliper itself.

And if the back rotor wears prematurely and or comes apart,as in your case,it's usually caused from excessive usage or a caliper that's hanging up preventing the pads from releasing.When ever the rear tire is changed,that rear caliper is supposed to be inspected,cleaned,and the contact points on the pads, cleaned and lubed so they can move back and forth,freely.But many stealers don't do that,instead,stickin it to the customer for a new rotor,pads,and,of course, labor.So, as you noted ,the price to do the job is NOT cheap!! Dave!!!
FWIW: Since most of the bigger bikes are now using two calipers up front with a decent sized thickness on the pads, and a single caliper on the rear,with thin pads,[due to limited space between the swing arm] , if you're in the habit of using the rear brake over the front brake,then you'll have problems back there.

My understanding is,the reason the manufacturers are doing that is because 80-90% of your normal braking is done [or supposed to be done] using the FRONT BRAKE ONLY.The rear brake is for emergency stopping and or holding on a hill.So with that in mind,that would be one explanation why the pads AND or rear rotor are wearing prematurely.My last bike was going thru rear pads also as they too were very thin like the pads used on the Indian, as well as other models built today,until the dealer explained the "WHY" to me .So after learning that,then thinking about what he said,and following that advice,my rear pads were then giving me 20-25,000 miles to a set and the rotor was no longer wearing prematurely.

And if you use the rear brake per the manufacturers recommendation,yet they are still wearing prematurely,then either the pads are hanging up in the caliper,[binding and not releasing,due to rust,road dust/dirt,etc.] or,there's a problem with the caliper itself.

And if the back rotor wears prematurely and or comes apart,as in your case,it's usually caused from excessive usage or a caliper that's hanging up preventing the pads from releasing.When ever the rear tire is changed,that rear caliper is supposed to be inspected,cleaned,and the contact points on the pads, cleaned and lubed so they can move back and forth,freely.But many stealers don't do that,instead,stickin it to the customer for a new rotor,pads,and,of course, labor.So, as you noted ,the price to do the job is NOT cheap!! Dave!!!
There is no excuse for the rear rotor coming apart as I said the bike was just serviced less than 2000 miles ago and rear tire was replaced the dealership showed my rear pads with 45% used 55%remaining I have been riding for 52 years and I have raced motocross and enduro for nearly 30 yrs. I rarely use my rear brake mainly trail braking slightly in the twistys with 55% left at 11000 miles. Rear rotor separating should never happen period!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Even though it looks like delamination, in reality it is a layer of the cast where the porosity was poor, dampness was allowed to get in, (usually through big temperature changes), and the water rusted off a layer of the cast.

Rotors are not "laminated" but the casting can be so porous, (low quality), that moisture can get in. Usually it happens closer to the burnished finish where the pads run. Biggest temp changes there.

It was pretty common on a lot of early 2000-2006 GM's of various models, especially heavier models like Caddys and Buicks, where the model can get very heavy with accessories and larger engines, but they didn't put on larger rotors. Heavy, lots of heat and temp changes, water got in, the casting would flake off, looking just like a delamination. GM at the time was using some sort of composite cast iron at the time that was more porous than it should have been.
Either way, the rotor has to be changed out.
That's about all I know!
I don’t know what happened possibly something in the caliper don’t know but for the dealer to say it’s a wear item is very poor customer service and nearly $600 estimate.... come on ! They don’t provide the vasoline?
 

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I don’t know what happened possibly something in the caliper don’t know but for the dealer to say it’s a wear item is very poor customer service and nearly $600 estimate.... come on ! They don’t provide the vasoline?
Brake pads and brake rotors ARE considered a normal wear item under ANY warranty. However, from what I can see, this is not a normal wear situation.

I'm one of the very few that uses the rear brake the majority of the time. I guess it's a bad habit since I grew up on a bike that didn't have front brakes. Regardless, my '14 with over 13k miles is still on it's OE rear pads and rotor. Again, what is pictured above is NOT normal wear.

.
 

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I have been riding for 47 years and never heard of a laminated rotor!!! I will agree with 2 things, Whatever that is it's not normal and it needs to be replaced. I was always trained that the front and rear brakes should both be used in all normal situations on the street or racing. The obvious exception would be trail braking . Every pro I know uses both brakes street or track. That hasn't changed to my knowledge!
 

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some of the explainations ive read on using rear brakes in this thread are totally ridiculous, try stopping a 850 # bike with just front braking aint gonna happen........balderdash. as for that rotor that should be replaced under WARANTY if said warranty is still in effect, your dealer is f#$^&in you.
 

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I am calling bulshit on this thead!
FWIW: Since most of the bigger bikes are now using two calipers up front with a decent sized thickness on the pads, and a single caliper on the rear,with thin pads,[due to limited space between the swing arm] , if you're in the habit of using the rear brake over the front brake,then you'll have problems back there.

My understanding is,the reason the manufacturers are doing that is because 80-90% of your normal braking is done [or supposed to be done] using the FRONT BRAKE ONLY.The rear brake is for emergency stopping and or holding on a hill.So with that in mind,that would be one explanation why the pads AND or rear rotor are wearing prematurely.My last bike was going thru rear pads also as they too were very thin like the pads used on the Indian, as well as other models built today,until the dealer explained the "WHY" to me .So after learning that,then thinking about what he said,and following that advice,my rear pads were then giving me 20-25,000 miles to a set and the rotor was no longer wearing prematurely.

And if you use the rear brake per the manufacturers recommendation,yet they are still wearing prematurely,then either the pads are hanging up in the caliper,[binding and not releasing,due to rust,road dust/dirt,etc.] or,there's a problem with the caliper itself.

And if the back rotor wears prematurely and or comes apart,as in your case,it's usually caused from excessive usage or a caliper that's hanging up preventing the pads from releasing.When ever the rear tire is changed,that rear caliper is supposed to be inspected,cleaned,and the contact points on the pads, cleaned and lubed so they can move back and forth,freely.But many stealers don't do that,instead,stickin it to the customer for a new rotor,pads,and,of course, labor.So, as you noted ,the price to do the job is NOT cheap!! Dave!!!
Wait... So you're saying you've seen a rotor do this before. AND you know the cause?
 

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I don’t know what happened possibly something in the caliper don’t know but for the dealer to say it’s a wear item is very poor customer service and nearly $600 estimate.... come on ! They don’t provide the vasoline?
Wait... They're not covering this? Did you call Polaris? Sounds like a dealer that doesn't want to do low paying warranty work .
 
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