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Hey guys, gunna share my inexperience with you here a little. Bought a challenger dark horse, been loving it so far. Threw some tab performance zombie baffles on, and grabbed the indian air intake. Seems like a good step up from stock, but I'm from wisconsin where bikes are a little more obnoxious than 'a good step up'. As it sits I feel like the volume is okay, just not anything impressive or even head turning.

Naturally, my mind goes to the cat delete, mostly because it's so ugly sitting under the bike lol.

Now my question is: I've never experienced what they sound like in person with a 2-1-2. I know I'll lose some bottom end and everything, especially with the zombies, but I want an idea of how loud itll actually end up after the cat delete. Am I going to have to pull the throttle when rolling past a cop, or am I just asking for attention. I dont have an issue grabbing a smaller baffle and throwing it on the right side and keeping a zombie on the left, I'd just like to know what everybody else thinks in advance before I end up having to put it all back together and waiting for a smaller baffle.

Also, I see tab performance has some torque rings. Personally I've never used them, or heard of anyone else using them, so does anyone have any insights/reviews on them in the challenger?
 

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Rob, I HAD the TAB Zombies with cat delete pipe and Indian Stage I air box with tune. You will make a LOT of noise, once the delete pipe is gone....but the bike suffered big time in terms of low speed/low RPM performance. This engine really needs some backpressure for optimum performance, of which an aftermarket tune is coming, which may address this issue. But I still have my ZOMBIE inserts with the hope that once a tune comes out and takes into account this baffle, I MIGHT put them back in. The sound level is OK at idle....but above 3,000RPM, they bark with the cat delete. I wasn't willing to keep the sound in exchange for poor performce. Hope that helps. Call TAB and talk to the guys about the Z-torque rings....I think it's mostly cosmetic to be honest with you.
 

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My DH has Stage1Air, TAB decat, TAB pipes with the quieter 1.75 baffles.
This is the ideal setup to me...
Engine is strong/smooth thru the powerband, noticeable gains vs stock (and I’m honest about perceived perf changes, try NOT to be influenced by the psych part of spending $$$ and then telling myself “oh yeah it’s better” to justify it.)
I’ve had LOUD setups before on well-tuned VRods & Buell’s. I’m done with loud just to be loud. I want great performance AND now to enjoy the ride without waking up neighbors or being heard 3 blocks away. Not to mention enjoying the clear music on vol 5 rolling at 75.
This setup is deeper/louder than stock & the engine likes the baffle backpressure, esp with decat.
Sidenote: we lose 8lbs without the cat, AND each TAB pipe (w/baffle) is 2.5lbs lighter than stock pipes.
Total weight loss was 13lbs.
 

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I have tabs with the 2.5 baffles, stage 1 map and cat delete. I my bike screams when I open that throttle. Tach winds up fast. My butt dyno approves.
 

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I have tabs with the 2.5 baffles, stage 1 map and cat delete. I my bike screams when I open that throttle. Tach winds up fast. My butt dyno approves.
War machine, that's exactly the set up I have on my Challenger. Do you sense/notice any fuel starvation when accelerating as you come out of a corner? No problems with power....and the needle on the tach does move very quickly to redline, but I sense we really need a "tune" to add some more fuel to the mix here.
 

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I only have a couple hours of riding on it since the install. Haven't noticed any subtle nuances of any fueling issues yet. Guess I'm too excited to notice. I'm sure its leaned out slightly. But im fortunate to live two miles from lloyds garage in lowell,nc I'm sure they will be able to tune it soon.
 

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Dynojet is working on the midpipe tuner as we speak. As I learn more I will update. Pipe just got Installed. But it will be with a PC5.
 

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Looking to remove my cat also. I currently have stage 1 Indian exhaust/intake. Wonder if the flash they did for the was enough for the cat too?
 

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From what I understand there were 2 stage one flashes, one for just the air intake and one for air + high flow exhaust. You'd have to check with the dealer to know for sure.
 

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I put my TAB performance cat delete on this weekend and I love the new sound. It hums when just cruising but growls when I hit the throttle. It is perfect but I wonder if it needs a new ECU flash or not.
 

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question.. without a ECU flash, or a PCV tuner installed, are you guys noticing a reduction of power? and does the bike run smooth or choppy, which means it is asking for a tune? I'm trying to figure out whether or not an ECU flash is enough from the dealer, or go the full PCV install and map myself.
 

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question.. without a ECU flash, or a PCV tuner installed, are you guys noticing a reduction of power? and does the bike run smooth or choppy, which means it is asking for a tune? I'm trying to figure out whether or not an ECU flash is enough from the dealer, or go the full PCV install and map myself.
I havent seen any change in performance except for the nicer sound. I asked the dealer specialist who told me that Indian isnt offering an ECU flash or reflash. Not sure what that meant.
 

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My local Indian dealer has done a few Tab Performance upgrades including the mid pipe.. Said he has always done a reflash of ECU with the Indian Stage 1 flash tune. Said he had no issues so far. They have not installed a tuner yet. I guess Dynojet didn't have a map or plug and play unit for the challenger at that time. I needed another opinion. I might just go ahead and let them do the ECU flash but plan on buying the PC5 just in case their flash doesn't work well..
 

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Just my opin: hold-off on the PC5 at least until you ride it a bit, after getting the dealer Stage1 flash.
My setup runs VERY SMOOTH & strong.
S1Air. Flash. TAB Decat. TAB pipes with 1.75 baffles (giving some back-pressure.) Deeper/louder vs stock at idle & low rpm’s (good for neighborhood or cities with noise limits,) then growls thru 2K, barks climbing thru 3K, and 4K+ roaring like a happy beast >>>while still hearing the music. Smooth up/down the powerband; not starving, not running hot. Keeping this setup forever, and waiting for a PV3.

Get the S1 flash from dealer... included with Air. Dealer cost varies if you just want the flash without buying S1Air or pipes (I’ve heard anywhere from $30 - $300.)
 

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Thanks for all the comments. Maybe I am missing something but I did 1 change...the CAT delete...and immediately there was an improvement in sound with no degradation in performance. The only question I have is whether or not I need a reflash or not. If recommended, do I ask for the stage 1 ecu flash and where do I get that?
 

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Only the dealer can perform the ecu stage 1 flash. It is an Indian specific flash requirement as part of their stage 1 kit.
Others have gotten a dynojet tuner to perform their own flashes(tunes/maps)
problem is it will also void your warranty.
I agree. Stick to Indian’s method.
 

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I did my exhaust (2-1-2 w/cat delete) right after I got the bike. Since I wasn't acclimated to the bike 100%, not sure if I had any loss of power. I am waiting on air intakes until aftermarket hits. I called my dealer, they were going to charge me $300 for the stage 1 flash. So i went with a PC5 for $330 instead. Definitely felt an increase in performance. Now, is it a legitimate increase, or did I lose some HP with the exhaust, and the PC5 just got me back to factory (maybe plus a hair)? I don't know. But, I do know there was a definitive difference before and after the PC5 install.
 

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I did my exhaust (2-1-2 w/cat delete) right after I got the bike. Since I wasn't acclimated to the bike 100%, not sure if I had any loss of power. I am waiting on air intakes until aftermarket hits. I called my dealer, they were going to charge me $300 for the stage 1 flash. So i went with a PC5 for $330 instead. Definitely felt an increase in performance. Now, is it a legitimate increase, or did I lose some HP with the exhaust, and the PC5 just got me back to factory (maybe plus a hair)? I don't know. But, I do know there was a definitive difference before and after the PC5 install.
Very interesting AZRocket. Cant believe that the removal of a chokepoint in the exhaust could ever result in a performance reduction. I havent seen any drop in performance so I am just going to leave it as is and see how it goes.
 

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The cat is a performance reducer designed to reduce carbon, and other harmful chemicals. The backpressure causes the gases to exit at a much slower pace. Removing it will allow it to breathe better and exit faster, thus causing a slight increase in power.. but very slight and hardly noticeable. What is noticeable is the increase in unmuffled sound. This is where your baffles come into play to help control the sound level. I'm going with the middle of the road, 2.5 louvered baffles. Just waiting on the cat delete unit to arrive.

The issue is the 02 sensors will notice a lack of backpressure and thus might begin to pop, backfire, etc. It might also generate an error code from the 02 sensor.
A retune (or ECU flash) will fix this by adjusting those levels. Indian recommends their "stage 1 performance" flash which is included in their Stage 1 performance pkg if you get it from them. I plan on paying them for just the ECU reflash once I complete the install in my garage.

The 02 sensor issue happened to me on my Harley and Triumph bikes. Both fixed with a tuner.

The tuner, like a power commander 5, is an option but be careful as it might affect your warranty if you ever have to bring her in for engine related work.
When I had my street glide, I opted to install a power commander.. In one service visit, my custom map was discovered (not the physical tuner) by their diagnostic scanner, which is tied back to their corporate system. My warranty was immediately voided and marked for life.

The irony is that if you purchase their tuner, which is tied to that bike and cannot be transferred, and have them install it, it will not void warranty. Just another way for them to keep the money flowing into their pockets.

I don't expect Indian to be any different. They do offer their own tune/map/flash whatever you want to call it, for their bikes and probably expect you to follow the same rules.
 
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